Nominet announces programme for evolving the .uk domain name space

[GreyWing]

Is nobody reading the actual documents? They've made it very clear that ALL auctions are off the table - the whole release mechanism has been developed in such a way as to do away with them completely.

What? Common sense tells me they ain't off the table. I don't know what you are reading.

 

[grantw]

Is nobody reading the actual documents? They've made it very clear that ALL auctions are off the table - the whole release mechanism has been developed in such a way as to do away with them completely.

I can't see what other way they're going to handle extensions with the same reg dates, prenom domains with incorrect dates and the LL's.

Grant

 

[Stephen]

Trust?

Is nobody reading the actual documents? They've made it very clear that ALL auctions are off the table - the whole release mechanism has been developed in such a way as to do away with them completely.

From the Nominet Press release:

http://www.nominet.org.uk/news/press-releases/nominet-proposes-new-policy-second-level-domain-registrations

• Domains not covered by a right of first refusal would be available to register from launch on a first-come, first-served, basis.

They are still asking for comments on what to do with pre noms, same date registrations and 2 letter auction domains - it maybe that Nominet will bring auctions back on the table for these cases?, but this would be against the tone of the V2.0 documents.

But I can understand Nominet have lost the trust of many people (on occasion myself included) and I hope Nominet can show by its actions that legitimate fears some have about Nominet's real motives are unfounded.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Not much they can do on ones like that - either a flip of a coin, an auction, or potentially give the two parties further time to negotiate between themselves who gets it?

 

[scooter]

or withdraw the name completely. (like .nz are proposing if mediation does not work)



.

 

[Edwin]

I can't see what other way they're going to handle extensions with the same reg dates, prenom domains with incorrect dates and the LL's.

Grant

- Lottery/coin flip
- .co.uk wins
- Highest bids at the earlier ll auctions wins
etc.

There are all sorts of ways of resolving these edge cases without having to wheel the bogeyman of auctions back into the picture.

Auctions are explicitly taken off the table not once but 3 times, in very clear terms...

From the Consultation document:

The modified release process would eliminate the need for detailed factual assessment of the
merits of competing claims and the need for auctions to resolve ‘tie-break’ situations. On balance,
we believe it would be fair, simple to use, less expensive to operate and less costly for end users
and remain in line with the principles of first-come, first-served.

We have replaced the phases from the proposed release process with a revised release
mechanism that prioritises existing .uk registrations in the current space. This removes the
need for an auction to determine between competing rights;

http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/default/files/ConsultationOnSecondLevelDomainRegistrationInUK_0.pdf

From the Background document:

Many stakeholders strongly objected to the use of an auction to resolve‘tie-break’ situations in
the release process. Whilst auctions may be the most efficient means to allocate resources in the
event of competing rights we acknowledge that many felt it would be unfair to lose a domain to
which they considered they had a legitimate right as a result of financial constraints. The use of
auctions has now been eliminated from the proposed release process.

http://www.nominet.org.uk/sites/def...egistrationInUKBackgroundAndFurtherDetail.pdf

 

[grantw]

And again, if the LL's are going to be treated differently because of the dates they were made available, why is .me.uk being treated the same as everything else when it is also disadvantaged by the date it became available!

Grant

 

[GreyWing]

I still think that first come first served is off the table, I can't see them allowing that. I just can't see them allowing DAC users to rip apart the .uk namespace and occupy it in 5 minutes.

To me, that has auctions written all over it. It's not possible that the above first come first served being allowed to happen. It's political suicide for Nominet, but of course current DAC users may not have access to .uk. It may only be sold through accredited resellers like 123-reg.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I certainly don't want to see drop catchers trying to grab everything on opening day - thats an almost surefire way to ensure .uk never takes off, as all the domains disappear into portfolios.

Let people register in advance, if one person wants it then they get it. If more than one wants it, pick one at random.

 

[philiporchard]

I heard from my MP today regarding the latest proposal. It was good to hear that Nominet had been back in touch with them again in response to issues my MP had raised on my behalf.

 

[Edwin]

I still think that first come first served is off the table, I can't see them allowing that. I just can't see them allowing DAC users to rip apart the .uk namespace and occupy it in 5 minutes.

To me, that has auctions written all over it. It's not possible that the above first come first served being allowed to happen. It's political suicide for Nominet, but of course current DAC users may not have access to .uk. It may only be sold through accredited resellers like 123-reg.

Why?

A) How much will really make it through the 6 month period unscathed. If it has value, then 2-3 extensions will be registered so you have to assume simultaneous total disinterest by multiple parties

B) The names will all get released the same day 6 months down the road - DAC quotas will max out almost immediately under the weight of chasing so many domains (this is not incompatible with A - we can for example be talking about thousands of names, which is simultaneously enough to wipe out DAC quotas yet a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the overall 10,000,000 registration base)

 

[anthony]

Why?

A) How much will really make it through the 6 month period unscathed. If it has value, then 2-3 extensions will be registered so you have to assume simultaneous total disinterest by multiple parties

B) The names will all get released the same day 6 months down the road - DAC quotas will max out almost immediately under the weight of chasing so many domains (this is not incompatible with A - we can for example be talking about thousands of names, which is simultaneously enough to wipe out DAC quotas yet a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the overall 10,000,000 registration base)

Ban the DAC for this anyway, let's have some fun for a few hours!

 

[Murray]

I certainly don't want to see drop catchers trying to grab everything on opening day

I do

Well, what ever release gives me the best chance anyway.

 

[Lovekraft]

The other issue with the LL's is that a couple of dozen or so .co.uk LL's existed long before the auctions just to further confuse things. So if they went by Edwins suggestion of highest bidder at previous auction wins, they may have to make an extra exception for the old LL's that weren't part of the auction as they were registered a good 15 years before. Pretty messy situation.

 

[Stephen]

Special Algorithms

,,,,B) The names will all get released the same day 6 months down the road - DAC quotas will max out almost immediately under the weight of chasing so many domains (this is not incompatible with A - we can for example be talking about thousands of names, which is simultaneously enough to wipe out DAC quotas yet a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the overall 10,000,000 registration base)

When the .eu was launched they had millions of available domains and the algorithms by the big players hovered the best domain up in a matter of hours.

It will be a special situation the rewards are potential huge, there will be special code that will catch the quality .uk domains available very quickly.

 

[namealot]

If nom really wanted to take out the speculative aftermarket nature of domains and actually launch a product that has benefit to user there are a multitude of measures they could implement

Names could go to actual a legitimate running uk registered, tax paying, company name registered at companies house business etc.

Set a limit to the number any one business or individual can own.

New registrant policy of development and proof of revenue generation or community usefulness within set times.

Names just parked undeveloped bs affiliate any third party right to request transfer small fee charge no re request within 90 180 days etc onus on existing owner to prove genuine use.

More than one interested party initial higher fee £150 (fee used to pay for panel )Max 100 words summary of why name should go to them decided by independent panel.

Sales to third party only allowed if genuine use was shown if this could not be proven previous interested parties or open application offered the name at registration fee + prev reg fee if no takers owner could sell at any price ?

There are a multitude of ways better than giving it to existing or auctioning etc but they are in it for the money

 

[Retired_Member38]

Real world example of how all this Nominet stuff is harming the UK domain sales market:


A while back I bid £1000 for Chimpanzee.co.uk. Seller comes back with £4000. I decline to negotiate further.

Out of interest I was looking through my Sedo panel today at past offers. I seen that one and had a look at the registered on dates. Even if I wanted to buy this domain for £4000 today, I couldn't do it.

The .me.uk predates it, but is currently overdue on renewal and suspended. So who knows if its going to drop or not. And even if it does, whether Nominet will continue with the proposal that gives it to the earliest current registrant.

You'd need to be insane to pay £4k for a brandable domain today, with a decent chance you lose the .uk.

 

[GreyWing]

You'd need to be insane to pay £4k for a brandable domain today, with a decent chance you lose the .uk.

Not just buy it mate, but would you invest £4k in staff and branding if you already owned it?

I wouldn't.

 

[Retired_Member38]

Yeah thats the main worry really. £4k on a domain, £4k on a design, £1000 on content and £30k on promoting it. Add in £1k on steaks and strippers while I planned all the above, and thats £40k spent.

Now someone else gets the .uk and can easily add up all my spending above.... and whack me with a £10k bill knowing I have no choice but to pay it.

 

[GreyWing]

Why?

A) How much will really make it through the 6 month period unscathed. If it has value, then 2-3 extensions will be registered so you have to assume simultaneous total disinterest by multiple parties

B) The names will all get released the same day 6 months down the road - DAC quotas will max out almost immediately under the weight of chasing so many domains (this is not incompatible with A - we can for example be talking about thousands of names, which is simultaneously enough to wipe out DAC quotas yet a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the overall 10,000,000 registration base)

a) There are 10 million names, a hell of a lot will get to landrush. Some will have the same owner across the .org.uk and .co.uk So one persons misses the email and that name doesn't get registered. Nom will almost certainly invoke a cut off date for registratios of .me.uk and the other crap ones. So no point registering them now in order to get a bite at the cherry in my opinion.

b) You'd have them lined up ready to catch long before the day of the landrush. You could register a thousand per day using DAC if I ain't mistaken. 200 hundred people registering up to a thousand domains a day by dac and then web domain manager = a hell of a lot of domains, not a tiny fraction.