Scottish Independence

[anthony]

So let's get this right, Scotland (or rather Alex Salmond) wants independence from the UK, but:

- He still wants the Pound.
- He still wants the Armed Forces of the UK.
- he doesn't want to take liability for the RBS debt, and has since been assured that all of their current banking debts will be fully underwritten by the BOE (aka British taxpayers) in the event of independence.
- He wants all revenue rights to oil fields developed by British money, previously subsidised for 20 years of full tax relief at huge cost to all UK tax payers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but independence means self sufficiency. What else does this nut case want to keep? The NHS? If you want to go, then hurry the fuck up and go, but I pity the ordinary Scot in the street who will suffer if he gets to re-define Scottish history!

 

[Retired_Member38]

I don't think the oil point is a particularly good one - there hasn't been a real subsidy - the amount of money generated from Scottish oil and then spent in England has been massive.

If they wanted to go independent it should have been done in the 70's or 80's. http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-facts-about-scotlands-oil-and-independence/

I don't see how they can say they want some things but want to keep the pound and armed forces. Though the armed forces part isn't a major issue, they wouldn't need nuclear weapons or a massive army to invade oil rich countries as they'd have their own

And not keeping the pound wouldn't be a disaster - plenty other countries managed to change to the Euro, Scotland could change too.

 

[tifosi]

Well they were certainly running around like headless chicken this afternoon after Osborne effectively gave them the finger on behalf of the BoE & treasury.

Salmond can't make his mind up what he wants and Sturgeon keeps pulling out the bullying card whenever she hears something she doesn't like.

Going to be an interesting few months

 

[namealot]

Would they be allowed to use the euro though ? An independent Scotland as a region of a member state that gained independence would be seen as a new state, therefore outside the EU. Meaning they have to apply to join the EU The Spanish have already said they would veto membership as automatic right and as they need all member states to agree and without the EU and all the UK's EU rebates and opt-outs which he wishes to retain Salmons dream of “freedom” would be financial disaster for Scotland

 

[killaclown]

its a power play, for the Scottish Parliament to gain more power.

I do hope it doesn't back fire though and they become independent.

Isle of man is a separate country but allows the UK to govern it foreign policy and they also have the pound. It's much smaller than Scotland, but the amount of business that must of gone through there must have been enormous, when their banking / tax system was a lot more private.

 

[websaway]

The lengths that some people will go to, to be prime minister of a country.


Seriously, I was wondering how they would get around the currency thing but it appears they can't, not sure if that is in itself a killer blow.

 

[boxerdog]

Scotcoin is in development lol will be released early March

 

[scooter]

What you lot on about?

There is a HUGE misconception down south that this is all about Alex Salmond becoming the "great, mighty leader". You forget, he is only there because the people of Scotland voted for his party to be there.

Since being voted in, the SNP have ran the country and the people voted them in again to do the same, so the people have voted they are the best of a bad bunch. Now the SNP stand by their promise and are giving the people of Scotland a vote and a choice to chose their own destiniation.

(It's a pity both Labour and the Tories have promised such a vote on Europe and none have delivered. So now you have the march of UKIP.)

If Scotland does vote for independence, the next thing to happen will be a general election. The people will then decide who they want to run the country. Labour, Tory, SNP, Green Party, UKIP (but called something else) and no doubt a few other parties will be born. Perhaps it may even end in a coalition? Who knows?

..............................

I'm a Scot and I sit on the fence but when i hear statements like yesterday and all 3 major parties backing the same statement. I start to lean towards independence.

What is needed is rational debate. But so far this is not forthcoming from Westminster. David Cameron is the leader of the United Kingdom. I need him to come to Scotland and to debate WHY we are better off as a union. But Mr Cameron will not do!!! What kind of leadership is that???

He states "it is for the people of Scotland to decide". For gods sakes man, get your ass up here and plead why we should all stick together. Come and make your case because if you don't and there are more statements like yesterday, there is going to be a seismic shift in the coming months for independence.




.

 

[websaway]

There is a HUGE misconception down south that this is all about Alex Salmond becoming the "great, mighty leader". You forget, he is only there because the people of Scotland voted for his party to be there.

Since being voted in, the SNP have ran the country and the people voted them in again to do the same, so the people have voted they are the best of a bad bunch. Now the SNP stand by their promise and are giving the people of Scotland a vote and a choice to chose their own destiniation.

(It's a pity both Labour and the Tories have promised such a vote on Europe and none have delivered. So now you have the march of UKIP.)

If Scotland does vote for independence, the next thing to happen will be a general election. The people will then decide who they want to run the country. Labour, Tory, SNP, Green Party, UKIP (but called something else) and no doubt a few other parties will be born. Perhaps it may even end in a coalition? Who knows?

..............................

I'm a Scot and I sit on the fence but when i hear statements like yesterday and all 3 major parties backing the same statement. I start to lean towards independence.

What is needed is rational debate. But so far this is not forthcoming from Westminster. David Cameron is the leader of the United Kingdom. I need him to come to Scotland and to debate WHY we are better off as a union. But Mr Cameron will not do!!! What kind of leadership is that???

He states "it is for the people of Scotland to decide". For gods sakes man, get your ass up here and plead why we should all stick together. Come and make your case because if you don't and there are more statements like yesterday, there is going to be a seismic shift in the coming months for independence.




.

Nice to hear about this from a scot But I don't think anybody is going to beg Scotland to stay, it's a matter for the scots. Lets be honest though the chances of a vote to leave the UK are very low.
Everybody here is demanding a vote on Europe, if that referendum happens it's still a massive decision when you cast your vote, it's not clear cut when you dig deep, we were right not to join the Euro, can we keep getting it right.
When a party is in opposition they could solve all the problems and appease the voters by making promises of what they would do if they had power, but in government it's hard to be effective and popular.

 

[scooter]

When a party is in opposition they could solve all the problems and appease the voters by making promises of what they would do if they had power, but in government it's hard to be effective and popular.

I'm not sure if you are talking about Scotland or Europe vote here?
If it is Europe, the Tories already promised long time ago when in power and then back tracked. Are you saying they will back track again?


Or are you talking about Scotland?

Again, this is a misconception if you are talking about Scotland. The people here know the score. The people in the rest of the UK think the SNP "white book" is the bible and the road map the Scots will take. It is not. It is only 1 parties vision. Nothing more.


The SNP have to lay their "vision" of what they would like to do if.

1. Independence is gained
2. And IF they were to be voted in to power after a general election.

All the other parties say nothing as they are anti independence (except the Green Party) but they will all have their own "vision" firmly in place, well before September. Because things could change overnight.



.......................


There will be a huge transition period for all of the UK if independence were to go ahead. This is when the REAL talking starts. There are massive implications.

Business
Pensions
Banking
Health
loads more



But I don't think anybody is going to beg Scotland to stay,
I do not think anyone should be doing any begging either but I do think EVERYONE in the UK should be told all the facts as if independence should come there will be huge implications for the rest of the UK as well. But I do think the leader of the UK should be shouting the loudest in Scotland as it is there that also determines what happens to the remainder of the UK.

It will not just be a case of "feck em, cut the umbilical and let the dogs go". The remainder of the UK will suffer.





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[Skinner]

Can we have our Darien Scheme refunded when Scotland leave

I'd never heard of Darien Scheme and how England bailed scotland out before but a scotsman was telling me ye english can have ya blood money back, but we're keeping the oil, but half a million pound in 1700s with inflation to todays money, would probably wipe out the rest of UK's national debt if understand it properly.

 

[spiderspider]

Growing up, I always thought Scotland was an independent country. I once was shown a Scottish tenner, and that was enough to convince me.

TBH, as an Englishman, I couldn't give two hoots. There's already a Scottish parliament, Scottish money, a Royal Bank, a capital city, its almost there.

 

[cm1975]

Growing up, I always thought Scotland was an independent country. I once was shown a Scottish tenner, and that was enough to convince me.

TBH, as an Englishman, I couldn't give two hoots. There's already a Scottish parliament, Scottish money, a Royal Bank, a capital city, its almost there.

I remember a couple of my brother's friends thought they needed passports to fly to Scotland from London .... this was the days before 9/11 and you didn't actually need them.

As a Scot, I think it's kind of scary that something as basic as currency is still being discussed with a few months until the vote. If they can't get something as fundamental as that correct, then what else hasn't been thought out properly!?

I'm also of the opinion that it's just a way of the Scottish Parliament looking for more power, rather than full-scale independence.

 

[sdsinc]

If Scotland declares independence it's the end of the United Kingdom and the relevance of .uk is called into question.
BTW .gb is still active in the root (albeit empty), and it could be reactivated at short notice.

 

[Skinner]

Its been a while since I learned about the make up aka england > gb > uk but wouldnt england, ireland and wales and the others like iow etc still represent a united kingdom ?

If scotland completed the uk bit I dont see why we should change it, still be multiple countries united.

 

[diablo]

If Scotland declares independence it's the end of the United Kingdom and the relevance of .uk is called into question.
BTW .gb is still active in the root (albeit empty), and it could be reactivated at short notice.

If Scotland votes for independence it's the end of Great Britain, not the United Kingdom.

 

[sdsinc]

If Scotland votes for independence it's the end of Great Britain, not the United Kingdom.

Oops sorry. It's worse than I thought then

 

[retired_member33]

....

 

[TinkyWinky]

he is only there because the people of Scotland voted for his party to be there.

I think you'll find he's only there because people voted him there because the SNP froze council tax and did things like removing the crossing fees on the Forth Road Bridge! That is a bit simplistic but I know quite a few folks round this way that voted primarily due to the Council tax saving of £50 a year! Now that is scary.

When there's no independence, the SNP will be forced to raise Council tax almost immediately to pay for a crumbling eduction system, roads, local services and of course find more money for the NHS, how many will vote for him/SNP then... I think you will find a mass exodus of support right there and then.

It's amazing how many people think short-term with their pockets - especially in a recession.

Having said that - no one in their right mind would vote for labour or Tory up here either - so I think the SNP have been very lucky in their timing.

There's simply too many variables that have not been explained like NATO, EU, Pound, Debt and Salmond cannot explain how the books balance as from what I have heard Scotland spends/requires around £40bn more each year than it can bring in through taxes, subsidies and business investments. I could be wrong on that figure - but it is quite a shockingly large deficit each year - with an ever ageing population and an obesity crisis for the NHS.

TW

 

[diablo]

I have heard Scotland spends/requires around £40bn more each year than it can bring in through taxes, subsidies and business investments. I could be wrong on that figure - but it is quite a shockingly large deficit each year - with an ever ageing population and an obesity crisis for the NHS.
TW

It would be shockingly large if it was £40 billion, but it is nowhere near that figure.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Q/pno/3