Sign to bring back capital punishment

[BREWSTERS]

Once it reaches 100,000 signatures, it will prompt a parliamentary debate.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/138

Story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14400246

Edit: I signed but the confirmation link in their return email wasn't working - prob overloaded.

 

[Pred]

on the condition Tony Blair is first
The hotel rooms at the Hague just won't do

 

[Ashton]

I cant understand why we would want capital punishment back.

 

[Pred]

I jest
It won't happen
It can't anyway, not with our human rights agreement with Europe
Okay our Government torture people on the side or turn a blind eye , but apart from that

I am for an overhaul of sentencing though. Less luxurious conditions and full life tarriffs for the most evil. Child killers, oap batterers etc
However, this is again against our European HR Policy
I think it's just people venting spleen tbh.
There's no way we'll go back to the dark ages but it may just spur tougher sentencing, hopefully. With an overhaul of the silly sentencing guidelines.
Must drive police potty too when they get someone really bad and they get off with a max. sentence that is only a few years, then they get out in half the time for good behaviour.

Nuts system, needs overhauling

 

[Ashton]

Actually I think we should treat our prisoners better, like Norway. They have a very very very low re-offence rate, and have the nicest prison system in the world. It works better treating your prisoners like people, not cattle.

Though I think paedophiles etc should be locked up for life.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I agree, I watched Top Gear on Sunday and had a tear in my eye watching those lads who'd lost limbs in Afghanistan. They were putting a brave face on it but no 23 year lad should have to live with no legs and only one arm while that criminal bastard earns millions writing memoirs and giving speeches about what he did and how he had to make tough decisions.

I decided that it should be compulsory to have served in the forces before you can be a politician, perhaps then we wouldn't go to war on a whim or because of some religious calling.

Blair gave the advance from his memoirs to Help for Heros I believe - guilt there I reckon.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Actually I think we should treat our prisoners better, like Norway. They have a very very very low re-offence rate, and have the nicest prison system in the world. It works better treating your prisoners like people, not cattle.

Though I think paedophiles etc should be locked up for life.

Norway - was that from the article in the Sunday Times a while back?

What you're saying could be of benefit, but only to a few. On the whole I'd say that Norwegians are better educated and a greater percentage would appreciate and benefit from a system that shows them that their lifes could be better.

Unfortunately our prisons are largely full of idiots who have grown up smashing up the new play areas that were provided for their council estates and have a disdain for anyone who wants to better themselves. What they do understand though, is a bloody good hiding.

As for paedos - if they got a death sentence if caught, there would be far fewer of them.

Why should we pay for Ian Huntley to be fed and kept nice and safe? The human race are no more civilised than many other animals, why do some of us pretend we are?

 

[retired_member32]

I agree, I watched Top Gear on Sunday and had a tear in my eye watching those lads who'd lost limbs in Afghanistan. They were putting a brave face on it but no 23 year lad should have to live with no legs and only one arm while that criminal bastard earns millions writing memoirs and giving speeches about what he did and how he had to make tough decisions.

I decided that it should be compulsory to have served in the forces before you can be a politician, perhaps then we wouldn't go to war on a whim or because of some religious calling.

yes i was also touched by Top Gear ,why we are in a third world country in which 99% of the population would rather kill you than look at you is disturbing....if we started putting MP's on the frontline we would never venture close to a war ever again ,instead we rely on young lads who cant get a decent job so decide to join up

 

[BREWSTERS]

yes i was also touched by Top Gear ,why we are in a third world country in which 99% of the population would rather kill you than look at you is disturbing....if we started putting MP's on the frontline we would never venture close to a war ever again ,instead we rely on young lads who cant get a decent job so decide to join up

In centuries past that's what happened - not politicians but Kings and nobility.

Going to war now is an admission of failure on behalf of our leaders.

 

[Ashton]

Norway - was that from the article in the Sunday Times a while back?

I don't read papers, so no - just after the incident in Norway recently I looked into their system and was very impressed

What you're saying could be of benefit, but only to a few. On the whole I'd say that Norwegians are better educated and a greater percentage would appreciate and benefit from a system that shows them that their lifes could be better.

Unfortunately our prisons are largely full of idiots who have grown up smashing up the new play areas that were provided for their council estates and have a disdain for anyone who wants to better themselves. What they do understand though, is a bloody good hiding.

I think the start to change this attitude, is to change our attitude towards these kinds of people. Clearly they don't understand a good hiding considering our re-offence rate.

As for paedos - if they got a death sentence if caught, there would be far fewer of them.

I would prefer to just lock them up permanently, I see pedophilia as a mental illness personally.

Why should we pay for Ian Huntley to be fed and kept nice and safe? The human race are no more civilised than many other animals, why do some of us pretend we are?

Some of us? Do you eat with a knife and fork? Do you buy pretty images, do you try to get money, a fictional substance that humanity has made up that has no real groundings? There are things which separate us from animals, and how we treat our fellow human defines us.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I don't read papers, so no - just after the incident in Norway recently I looked into their system and was very impressed

Are you impressed that the longest term they can hand down to that idiot is 21 years? About 3 months per murder?

I think the start to change this attitude, is to change our attitude towards these kinds of people. Clearly they don't understand a good hiding considering our re-offence rate.

That doesn't make sense. They're not receiving capital punishment...hence they are re offending.

I would prefer to just lock them up permanently, I see pedophilia as a mental illness personally.

I don't, and neither does the law. They have the option to not follow their urges.

Some of us? Do you eat with a knife and fork? Do you buy pretty images, do you try to get money, a fictional substance that humanity has made up that has no real groundings? There are things which separate us from animals, and how we treat our fellow human defines us.

Your last sentence sums up my train of thought perfectly. Think about the Holocaust; think about Rowanda; think about the slums of South America where a life isn't worth $5; think about Jamie Bulger; think about the Moors Murderers; think about the dozens of kids murdered on our own streets; think about the millions bombed and killed in Iraq;...don't think that using a knife and fork makes us civilised - Idi Amin used cutlery and Hitler swapped money for goods.
In tens of thousands of years we are still savages at heart no matter how hard we try to disguise that fact, and we still will be for millenia to come. That's if we haven't finished ourselves off by then.

 

[Ashton]

Are you impressed that the longest term they can hand down to that idiot is 21 years? About 3 months per murder?

I am not saying our punishment system is correct, I just don't believe killing is the answer

That doesn't make sense. They're not receiving capital punishment...hence they are re offending.

The majority of prisoners are for smaller offences, which make up that figure - are you suggesting we should kill someone for taking a car, robbing a house?

I don't, and neither does the law. They have the option to not follow their urges.

Irrelevant to my point, they shouldn't be killed for it, that is not the right answer to the problem.

Your last sentence sums up my train of thought perfectly. Think about the Holocaust; think about Rowanda; think about the slums of South America where a life isn't worth $5; think about Jamie Bulger; think about the Moors Murderers; think about the dozens of kids murdered on our own streets; think about the millions bombed and killed in Iraq;...don't think that using a knife and fork makes us civilised - Idi Amin used cutlery and Hitler swapped money for goods. In tens of thousands of years we are still savages at heart no matter how hard we try to disguise that fact, and we still will be for millenia to come. That's if we haven't finished ourselves off by then.

Correct, that sums it up perfectly. All those that you mention - you bring yourself down to their level by suggesting killing is the answer.

You're correct, we are savages, savages by our impulses, our nature, hell the reason we exist today is because we are. However that part of us is no longer necessary and as we move away from that we become stronger as a species.

You argue that these murderers are 'savages' and should be killed, don't you see the irony in that? All it really does is show the savage in you.

 

[Frog]

I think plenty people deserve the death penalty... but that is on the assumption that they actually are guilty of the things they've been convicted of.

There have been plenty people wrongly convicted and released later - if you're already hung them by the time you realise they were never guilty in the first place, what do you do then?

I would prefer to make far better use of whole-life sentences... people like Ian Huntley and his like should all be given those sentences. So should paedophiles. Some of them are never going to be released anyway, so giving them a whole life sentence would mean you could save the money that would been spent on the pretence of rehabilitating them. Just keep them locked up like a caged animal...

 

[Ashton]

I would prefer to make far better use of whole-life sentences... people like Ian Huntley and his like should all be given those sentences. So should paedophiles. Some of them are never going to be released anyway, so giving them a whole life sentence would mean you could save the money that would been spent on the pretence of rehabilitating them. Just keep them locked up like a caged animal...

Exactly, let the most detrimental to society rot away.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I am not saying our punishment system is correct, I just don't believe killing is the answer



The majority of prisoners are for smaller offences, which make up that figure - are you suggesting we should kill someone for taking a car, robbing a house?

No...for offences like that, a good birching would suffice.

Irrelevant to my point, they shouldn't be killed for it, that is not the right answer to the problem.

So what is the answer? You said that locking them up forever is. But we already have that - wasn't a deterent for Huntley, was it? He'll never see freedom again but that didn't stop him, and it won't deter many other to come I'm sorry to say.

Correct, that sums it up perfectly. All those that you mention - you bring yourself down to their level by suggesting killing is the answer.

You're correct, we are savages, savages by our impulses, our nature, hell the reason we exist today is because we are. However that part of us is no longer necessary and as we move away from that we become stronger as a species.

You think we have moved further away? There are 'civiisations' from history who were arguably more civilised than us.

You argue that these murderers are 'savages' and should be killed, don't you see the irony in that? All it really does is show the savage in you.

No, my argument is that we are all savages, and pretending we aren't is futile. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The very fact that our prisons are full should be enough for most to realise that current deterents fall woefully short of purpose.

You can't argue with figures - are there more murders now than when we had the death sentence?

 

[BREWSTERS]

I think plenty people deserve the death penalty... but that is on the assumption that they actually are guilty of the things they've been convicted of.

There have been plenty people wrongly convicted and released later - if you're already hung them by the time you realise they were never guilty in the first place, what do you do then?

People on death row in the US are there for a long time prior to throwing the switch - most if not all have been through appeals. For many cases; Huntley; Yorkshire Ripper; Moors murderers; Rosemary West, etc, such cases are beyond any doubt - why keep them in comfort where they become institutionalised to the point where they no longer feel to be punished and instead feel secure and looked after.

I would prefer to make far better use of whole-life sentences... people like Ian Huntley and his like should all be given those sentences. So should paedophiles. Some of them are never going to be released anyway, so giving them a whole life sentence would mean you could save the money that would been spent on the pretence of rehabilitating them. Just keep them locked up like a caged animal...

But that's what we have at the moment, and cases are rising, so as a deterent, it isn't working is it.

Also, using your rationale of locking people up for longer as being a greater punishment - how about the wrongly convicted you mention previously? Is it ok to lock them up for a whole life term?

 

[Ashton]

No...for offences like that, a good birching would suffice.

Lol

So what is the answer? You said that locking them up forever is. But we already have that - wasn't a deterent for Huntley, was it? He'll never see freedom again but that didn't stop him, and it won't deter many other to come I'm sorry to say.

Neither does capital punishment - the crime rate in America is high.

You think we have moved further away? There are 'civiisations' from history who were arguably more civilised than us.

I said moving away, I believe your attitude (and others like yours) is confrontational to the improvement of humanity. Punishment doesn't work in comparison to rehabilitation.

No, my argument is that we are all savages, and pretending we aren't is futile. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The very fact that our prisons are full should be enough for most to realise that current deterents fall woefully short of purpose.

As above, capital punishment is not the answer. Norway has a system of rehabilitation and their prisons are the best. Their intentional homicide rate is half ours.

You can't argue with figures - are there more murders now than when we had the death sentence?

No, but you're not looking at the facts - there are also proportionally more murders in the united states, who still has the death sentence.

I would turn your last statement on its head, you cant argue with the facts:

Norway has a less punishment focused prison system
Norway has a significantly lower homicide rate
Norway has a hugely lower re-offending rate (our 70% compared to their 20%)

You argue that we are all Savages, I argue that Norway has moved further away from being savage than we have. I also think that bringing capital punishment back would put us so much closer to being savage.

 

[Frog]

People on death row in the US are there for a long time prior to throwing the switch - most if not all have been through appeals. For many cases; Huntley; Yorkshire Ripper; Moors murderers; Rosemary West, etc, such cases are beyond any doubt - why keep them in comfort where they become institutionalised to the point where they no longer feel to be punished and instead feel secure and looked after.

If they are beyond any doubt whatsoever then gas them, hang them, feed them to lions or whatever - thats fine. The punishment would fit the crime, and it would be cheaper than keeping them locked up forever. But where do you draw the line of their being enough proof to convict them of something, but not enough to kill them?

Also, using your rationale of locking people up for longer as being a greater punishment - how about the wrongly convicted you mention previously? Is it ok to lock them up for a whole life term?

If someone is innocent I would say keeping them locked up forever is certainly a better option than killing them... if we realise further down the line we've made a mistake with someone we can at least partially make amends for that mistake by letting them back out. Nothing you can do if you've already killed them

Look at advances in DNA and fingerprints and so on... would you be happy killing people today when technology might catch up with their circumstances in 5, 10, 20, 50 years and mean we should be letting them out as they've been innocent all along?

 

[namealot]

Does capital punishment, in any form provide a better deterrent than long term imprisonment etc ? In particular, is it likely that expanding will lead to fewer crimes? As statistics show it doesn’t, then capital punishment offers no practical benefits to society..?

In the USA they have found the homicide rates are higher in states with capital punishment than without, Some suggest that executions at least save money this is also a common misconception legal arguments, special investigation, appeals etc far out way these cost… Research and a better understanding of social, economic, religious, political influences etc and would benifit us all more in helping reduce crimes of all sorts... Also the odd innocent person being killed makes it a bit of a no brainer...

 

[BREWSTERS]

No, but you're not looking at the facts - there are also proportionally more murders in the united states, who still has the death sentence.

I would turn your last statement on its head, you cant argue with the facts:

Norway has a less punishment focused prison system
Norway has a significantly lower homicide rate
Norway has a hugely lower re-offending rate (our 70% compared to their 20%)

You argue that we are all Savages, I argue that Norway has moved further away from being savage than we have. I also think that bringing capital punishment back would put us so much closer to being savage.

Going back to an earlier post, I counter with the fact that Norwegians are on the whole, better educated than people in the UK, and have a better standard of living in general. A more educated population is less likely to commit serious crime as they can appreciate the results of their actions. As such, they are also more likely to feel regret and far less likely to reoffend.

If you say they are more civilised than we are, I'd have to agree, but that is down to better education and a higher standard of living. Horses for courses; you can't expect the same results across the board between different societies.

You point to the States where they have a high crime rate - to that I'd counter that until a few short decades ago they still had segregation. Their further down the evolutionary chain than we are. I'd also point to countries like Saudi Arabia where hidious punishments are handed out but crime is very low.