.UK Announced

[scooter]

Forget the 2yrs scenario. Candle boy could instantly put a financial site up on the name immediatley and their will be no redress?








.

 

[grantw]

So, in theory they walk into the sunset very happy with a prime generic. gotten by devious means
.

That's about the top and bottom of it if the current proposal goes ahead!

Grant

 

[grantw]

That's about the top and bottom of it if the current proposal goes ahead!

Grant

Having said that, if the release follows the LL release rules then TM holders had to prove that the trademark was actively in use (12 months???) before the announcement. I'm guessing the chap you are on about may struggle to do that!

<edit>The first LL sunrise phase started on 01/12/10 and to qualify with a TM you had to prove that it was in use in the UK before 01/01/2008</edit>

Grant

 

[rhaigh]

Anybody reading this thread from Nominets Management will be rubbing their hands thinking "Well we ain't going to get any arguments of Substance from this crowd"

I don't intend my comments to belittle anyone but, It dosen't help when members (new or old) give an unintentional impression that their beliefs are fact. Or can be read/taken that way

I tend to agree, which is why I believe that legal
representation is important here.

 

[GreyWing]

Hi rhaigh and welcome

The sad fact is that Individuals with a vested interest in 'outcomes' (and indeed many Companies that should know better) will always put their own spin (interpretation) on what ever is said in a "shortened version" of any attempt to explain the fundamentals.

And it really dosen't work to try and explain something reasonably complex but also remarkably intuiative - (once you take the time to learn the basics) to a multi-level audience.

I've also found in trying to be helpful in Trademark situations creates it's own problems (as my Private mail inbox will testify)

What I find most disappointing is individuals willingness to put hours and hours into domain discussions, domain searches and registrations (not forgetting the money) and yet Not have an understanding of the legal aspects of the area of "What after all is a business" they are into.

This new Nominet proposal for .UK and it's proposed application criteria has just added another Window on the lack of TM Law understanding thats out there.

Anybody reading this thread from Nominets Management will be rubbing their hands thinking "Well we ain't going to get any arguments of Substance from this crowd"

I don't intend my comments to belittle anyone but, It dosen't help when members (new or old) give an unintentional impression that their beliefs are fact. Or can be read/taken that way

I have no idea what this post is about, I have no idea if you are saying my interpretation of TM law is accurate or Nominet's interpretation is accurate or nobodies anywhere on the face of the earth is accurate. There is no substance in it. But I think you are advocating permanent inertia.

If you think that this forum is a battle front or represents the majority of people find this then you are 5 years out of date. There is a lot of stuff that is going on that is secret from Nominet because we want it to remain secret.

There is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes and a lot of us are putting in some very long hours and hard work to make things happen. Regardless of whether you agree with someone or not, at least they are doing something.

Of course the person that has done nothing can always critique those that have from the safety of sitting on the fence.

This site has been great for getting members to sign up to the EGM and I do thank admin for that. But I think me posting tips from legal friends to try and help people just seems to indicate that people have started nit pick things instead of putting them into context.

In fact I'm starting to wonder if certain new people have not been sent over here from a certain large company in the form of "agent provocateurs".

So I'll do whatever I have been doing for a bit and say thanks to the forum again it has been a big help.

 

[afx]

Guys and Girls,

We need to know how the announcement has effected your business plans, Your customers business plans for the next 6 months.

We need to know how it will effect your business plans and your customers business plans if it gets the go ahead in its current form.

http://www.that.co.uk/business.html

I want to publish these on the site, of course domainers are welcome to share there stories but we need to show how it will effect the wider community too or it could be said it is just domainers doing this to protect their own interests.

I want that.co.uk to be the public face of the campaign against the general concept of the proposals.

So if anyone's business plans will or have been effected please fill in that form and please share, tell others and get their comments..

Cheers
GW

Graeme,

The wider community is the community; it is all inclusive ie. Registrants. The term "domainer" needs to be never uttered again IMO. It is typically only used in the pejorative -- despite the fact this non word has no Nominet definition, it has no legal definition and it has no dictionary definition. I suppose it had some loose definition a few years ago -- it was used interchangeably with the word cybersquatter.

I don't buy the "to protect their own interests"; from the start this mindset to differentiate is legitimising the idea that some registrants are lesser registrants than others -- despite there being zero indisputable clarification of how and what makes this so.

I applaud what you're trying to do and hope that what "registrants" want to see happen with .UK actually counts for something.

 

[rhaigh]

The term "domainer" needs to be never uttered again IMO. It is typically only used in the pejorative -- despite the fact this non word has no Nominet definition, it has no legal definition and it has no dictionary definition.

I agree. The term 'domainer' is an unfortunate one and
is never referred to, by anyone outside of this field of
endeavor, in a positive way.

What does it imply?..

Well, it suggests that you are only a transient collector
of ip, with no vested interest in it. Of course, that is
exactly what some of you are, but I feel that "investor"
is a much better term (for people to relate to) and has
more positive connotations.

 

[websaway]

I agree. The term 'domainer' is an unfortunate one and
is never referred to, by anyone outside of this field of
endeavor, in a positive way.

What does it imply?..

Well, it suggests that you are only a transient collector
of ip, with no vested interest in it. Of course, that is
exactly what some of you are, but I feel that "investor"
is a much better term (for people to relate to) and has
more positive connotations.

This is not meant in any way to be derogatory.
All the members who are offering views on this site have been members for a number of years and all at least in some way know where the others are coming from, because of their history on the forum. I accept that eventually all will fight their own corner and act in their own best interests. I read your contribution with interest and respect that you are sincere in what you write. However, I think it would be helpful all round if you could perhaps, as most do, introduce yourself, and because you mean to be a prominent member tell us as much about yourself as you feel comfortable with.

 

[grantw]

However, I think it would be helpful all round if you could perhaps, as most do, introduce yourself, and because you mean to be a prominent member tell us as much about yourself as you feel comfortable with.

Totally agree.

"Well, it suggests that you are only a transient collector
of ip, with no vested interest in it. Of course, that is
exactly what some of you are"

what/who are you?

Grant

 

[WaftyCrank]

Trying to maybe look at the silver lining on this, it is my understanding that nominet are intending to insure that the .uk extensions are used rather than collected and resold for higher profits. Am I correct in that? Therefore they will be looking at installing an infrastructure to ensure this happens with every .UK that they sell.

Fast forward a few years and .UK and someone owns mortgages.uk and someone else owns mortgages.co.uk. The mortgages.uk site HAS TO be running a legit business from the domain. This isn't going to devalue the .co.uk in fact there is a chance it will increase the .co.uk value because the owner of Mortgages.uk will be branded and promoted (I assume) thus type in traffic will be increasing to mortgages.co.uk. Eventually the owner of mortgages.uk is going to have to buy the .co.uk version because he/she will be losing business and they can't complain that mortgages.co.uk was registered in bad faith because it was registered pre .uk existence.

I think some of this (if domainers are actively bent over and shafted by nominet by not allowing grandfather rights to .co.uk owners) might actually end up working in favour of many .co.uk owners. More so probably the brandable names rather than EMD but still, it might not be all doom and gloom that many are thinking. I can personally see the light in the tunnel and certainly won't be considering devaluing any of my .co.uk domains because of direct.uk

*** PLEASE NOTE I AM HAPPY TO BE CORRECTED IF ANY OF MY ABOVE ASSUMPTIONS ARE INCORRECT **

 

[Edwin]

Trying to maybe look at the silver lining on this, it is my understanding that nominet are intending to insure that the .uk extensions are used rather than collected and resold for higher profits. Am I correct in that? Therefore they will be looking at installing an infrastructure to ensure this happens with every .UK that they sell.

You are understanding this wrong. Nothing in what Nominet has published imposes any post-registration restrictions on .uk. They have suggested that SUBdomains can't be resold under .uk - they've not said that .uk names can't be.

They've also made absolutely no demands on what is put on a .uk site, if anything. The requirements they've talked about along those lines have been in regard to existing domains under existing extensions, and by derivation who's entitled to be in the queue for the equivalent .uk before the general public get their chance.

As a result, the "silver lining" you're describing unfortunately doesn't exist.

 

[WaftyCrank]

Hmmm thanks for that. I have obviously got my wires crossed on the enforced use of the domain portion. However I still think the silver lining is valid. It may not be as immediate but the drip fed traffic from any branded.uk will have a positive net effect (both in terms of traffic and value) to any .co.uk.

That said, I still don't want the .uk to be brought in because I've bought into the .co.uk space (both as a business and investment individually) on the strength that it was THE ONLY space for business in the .uk web.

 

[Bailey]

I have no idea what this post is about, I have no idea if you are saying my interpretation of TM law is accurate or Nominet's interpretation is accurate or nobodies anywhere on the face of the earth is accurate. There is no substance in it. But I think you are advocating permanent inertia.

.

Hmm, I actually think the work your doing is very good and the site which you putting together equally good.

My comments were in fact directed to rhaigh, and if you read it the context of that "which is why I quoted him" and the misinformation being given in regards trademarks

But equally it seems wrong to single anyone out seeing others seem to have an equal lack of understanding when it comes to TradeMarks

Guess everyone is getting over-touchy at the moment.

 

[GreyWing]

Hmm, I actually think the work your doing is very good and the site which you putting together equally good.

My comments were in fact directed to rhaigh, and if you read it the context of that "which is why I quoted him" and the misinformation being given in regards trademarks

But equally it seems wrong to single anyone out seeing others seem to have an equal lack of understanding when it comes to TradeMarks

Guess everyone is getting over-touchy at the moment.

Sorry Bailey, I didn't intend to have a go but I kind of just meant that if you want to have a go at anyone then please fire away, especially at me. It just saves so much time if people say "Graeme you are talking crap because ......"

But it is hard for anyone to answer anything unless people are straight out with stuff.

Probably taking a few frustrations from other areas and placing them on you. Again Bailey come across a bit harsh and I apologise....

 

[Bailey]

No problem mate - I'm pretty thick-skinned.

 

[scooter]

In fact I'm starting to wonder if certain new people have not been sent over here from a certain large company in the form of "agent provocateurs".

+1
I thought there would have been another couple of posts by now. Most likely in meetings this afternoon.




.

 

[websaway]

extracts from nominet.

We believe that consumers would benefit from the knowledge that the business they are dealing with has a presence in the UK and takes its responsibility to protect consumers seriously. Registrations at the second level also meets the market need of the consumers and businesses who are seeking a short easy domain and have often asked why we register names under .co.uk and .org.uk instead of just .uk.

Has anybody not asked the same question through the years but I think they meant in the first place,not now.

We are committed to enhancing the ability of businesses to get online and in turn to give their customers greater confidence in their internet use, and believe that this proposal has the potential to have a substantially positive effect on the digital economy.

There is nothing stopping businesses getting on line now




We are also fully committed to continue supporting the existing second level domains such as .co.uk and .org.uk that we manage, as well as those managed by third parties. We believe that the introduction of a new .uk service via the second level could operate effectively alongside domain names registered in the third level, subject to possible protections that might need to be in place.

Well on this one arn't they just sooooo kind.

 

[foz]

With regards to forum.nominet.org.uk. Do you think posts will be answered by Nominet? or we are just speaking to and amongst ourselves going around and around in circles?

 

[Edwin]

With regards to forum.nominet.org.uk. Do you think posts will be answered by Nominet? or we are just speaking to and amongst ourselves going around and around in circles?

My instinct is that Nominet may READ them. We're not going to see any comment from them, but at least there's a chance of an audience unlike here on Acorn where I'd bet nobody from Nominet has visited in years.

It's unfortunate that some are expending more energy excoriating domain investors on Nominet's forum than they are debating the actual issue at hand. There's a disturbing mood of gleeful triumphalism at the thought that "domainers" may be the most affected. Hopefully it's just a vocal minority.

 

[grantw]

With regards to forum.nominet.org.uk. Do you think posts will be answered by Nominet? or we are just speaking to and amongst ourselves going around and around in circles?

They very rarely get involved in discussions on there, was the same on the old Nomsteer mailing list.

As I'm sure you're witnessing, it's very hard to post on there as a domainer without someone going off an a domainer hate tangent!

Grant