.UK Announced

[arkvard]

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/...places-businesslink-and-directgov-from-today/

Seems very well timed don't you think

 

[tifosi]

But they've been pretty explicit in saying that the 2 will run in parallel. How on earth that will work only they know in whatever fantasy reality they live in!

The gov.uk site does look nice though. Very fast. Quite minimalistic. Decent typography.

No pot-bellied techy on the front page helps!

 

[simondooner]

Avoiding confusion in the .uk name space?

gov.uk – versus - gov.co.uk

Result of WHOIS query:

Error for "gov.co.uk".

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK naming rules.

The reason is: third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain.​

Is this simply a matter of double standards?

Can anyone explain why the above is not allowed but Nominet see no problem with the following:

mydomain.co.uk – versus – mydomain.uk

 

[Trigger Happy]

not much more confusing than

mydomain.co.uk

vs

my-domain.co.uk

vs

mydomain.co

vs

mydomain.org.uk


The web is confusing, thats why most people just type what they want into google.

 

[websaway]

not much more confusing than

mydomain.co.uk

vs

my-domain.co.uk

vs

mydomain.co

vs

mydomain.org.uk


The web is confusing, thats why most people just type what they want into google.

Well

my-domain.uk

and

mydomain.uk

should sort that out then

 

[Trigger Happy]

What will Nominet do when people start selling their own third level names? Anyone for ...

bmw.cars.uk
used.cars.uk etc..

Could be a goldmine and create even more confusion.

I think this is against the proposed rules

 

[simondooner]

Under Nominets current registration rules (excluding IP issues) mydomain.co.uk, my-domain.co.uk and mydomain.org.uk are all allowable.

However, their current rules state third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain. This works to prevent the registration of say gov.co.uk when gov.uk exists. This rule has worked well for many years and has helped avoid significant confusion, fraud etc.

Could anyone help clarify - are Nominet now proposing to abolish this tried and tested (third-level domain may not be identical to a UK second-level domain) domain registration rule for some but not others?

For me…

gov.co.uk and gov.uk

are as confusingly similar to

mybusiness.co.uk and mybusiness.uk

Why should there be a restriction on one, and not the other…. Does the stability of UK business not matter to Nominet?

 

[mojoco]

Under Nominets current registration rules (excluding IP issues) mydomain.co.uk, my-domain.co.uk and mydomain.org.uk are all allowable.

However, their current rules state third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain. This works to prevent the registration of say gov.co.uk when gov.uk exists. This rule has worked well for many years and has helped avoid significant confusion, fraud etc.

Could anyone help clarify - are Nominet now proposing to abolish this tried and tested (third-level domain may not be identical to a UK second-level domain) domain registration rule for some but not others?

For me…

gov.co.uk and gov.uk

are as confusingly similar to

mybusiness.co.uk and mybusiness.uk

Why should there be a restriction on one, and not the other…. Does the stability of UK business not matter to Nominet?

You have raised a very good point.

Error for "gov.co.uk".

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK
naming rules. The reason is:
third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain.

WHOIS lookup made at 12:23:55 17-Oct-2012

http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=gov.co.uk

 

[Paullas]

You have raised a very good point.

Error for "gov.co.uk".

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK
naming rules. The reason is:
third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain.

WHOIS lookup made at 12:23:55 17-Oct-2012

http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=gov.co.uk

maybe you have to pay to view the .uk whois

 

[foz]

Janet oversee .ac.uk and .gov.uk extensions, not Nominet.

https://community.ja.net/library/janet-services-documentation/domain-name-registration

Excluded Queries: Domain names not under Nominet UK’s control (e.g. .com), not directly operated by us (e.g. .gov.uk) or created directly under .uk (e.g. co.uk, bl.uk) or which cannot be registered do not return valid results on this WHOIS. The operator of the .ac.uk and .gov.uk domain names operates a whois service for them: see http://www.ja.net/services/whois/lookup.php

http://registrars.nominet.org.uk/registration-and-domain-management/contract-terms

 

[simondooner]

Foz, many thanks for the information on Janet.

However, I’m still confused over the second part of the Whois message:

This domain cannot be registered because it contravenes the Nominet UK naming rules.

The reason is: third-level domains may not be identical to a UK second-level domain.
​

It appears Nominet have a UK naming rule in place that prevents third-level domains if a UK second-level domain exists. I’m sure everyone would agree this is an eminently sensible rule to avoid confusion between similar second and third level UK names.

Has something now changed to make mybusiness.co.uk and mybusiness.uk no longer confusing?

 

[ratboy]

I think it's right the Government etc use .uk

nhs.uk
gov.uk

etc.

Introducing business use then seems a little confusing. :roll:

 

[markb]

As long as nominet give current .co.uk domain holders the first option to buy the same .uk domain, I dont see this being a major problem, apart from the extra expense obviously.

If nominet where instead, to only allow trademark holders to have the first option to buy the same .uk domain, then this would obviously be a problem, as the majority of small business and website owners dont actually have trademarks for their domains name. This would then open the domains up to domain investors trying to buy them all quickly and then sell on for a profit.

Nominet have always tried to promote the .co.uk extension as being the main uk extension to own, therefore if they bring a new one out which they hope replaces the .co.uk, but dont give .co.uk owners the first opportunity to buy, I think there are going to be hundreds of thousands of small business owners complaining. Maybe this is a money making excercise and they hope business owners will bid the highest price for their .uk domains.

Whatever happens its going to be a major problem for nominet and existing .co.uk domain owners.

Mark

 

[Blake]

Regarding the decline... Surely the number of registrations must have fallen off the cliff now they've announced the .uk? I know I've stopped buying, and coupled with the EMD update, lots of domains will go! For me, it's .com from here on thanks to the uncertainty of it all.

Ditto !

 

[GreyWing]

Just reading a document now that is dynamite, I don't think the EGM can stop at blocking these proposals. I will be putting to the members that we need to show the door to a high proportion of the board.

I'll see if I have permission to republish this, it is one of the most scariest documents I have ever read to do with Nominet.

Suggestion from what looks to be Lesley about "Plan R" about changing company status of Nominet, one possibility is to "For Profit".

 

[anthony]

....Suggestion from what looks to be Lesley about "Plan R" about changing company status of Nominet, one possibility is to "For Profit".

Why does that not surprise me?

 

[markb]

I think if they do bring .uk domains out, these should be replacing the existing .co.uk domain names. Otherwise many small business/website owners will be held to ransom by people buying the .uk top level of their domains.

When the .co domains came out, I wasnt actually in to buying domain names, but ran a few very popular websites. I wasnt even informed of the new .co domain names coming out, now all the .co domain names of my popular websites have been bought my people who have since put them up for sale for a profit. Many of these people don't live in the UK and have no intention of using them, they bought them purely to try and sell for a profit.

The exact same will happen here, if it wasnt for me being a member of acorndomains, I wouldnt even know about the .uk proposal as nominet havent had the courtesy of emailing me to let me know what they are proposing. Nominet shouldnt be able to get away with this, its not fair on the very people who have bought the domains and spent hundreds or thousands promoting their brands/websites.

I will now have to try and bid the highest to secure the .uk domains for all my websites, as I do not have any Trademarks registered for them.

 

[markb]

That's the problem Mark, if you don't have a trademark and someone else does, you won't even have the chance to bid for the domain and if there's no trademark holders you'll then be up against the .org.uk, .me.uk, the limited company with that name and anyone else who can prove a registered right.

Thats if the owners of the other domain extensions are even aware that the .uk version of their domain is available for sale. Will nominet email everyone? I suppose its in their own interest if they are trying to make as much profit as possible.

 

[markb]

I'm sure they will if the plan goes ahead but prior to that, it wouldn't be in their best interests because of the likelihood of it getting blocked.

If they let every .co.uk domain owner know, it would definately get blocked.

Who thinks we should create a government e-petition regarding this and try to get the government to step in? We could create a facebook page about it and pass it round to all uk domain owners and small businesses so that they are aware of what is going to happen and have a chance to give their opinion before it is to late?

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

 

[~andy]

Who thinks we should create a government e-petition regarding this and try to get the government to step in?

NO!


If GreyWing is a sitting on dynamite, then the bang will attract Goverment attention. Which isn't great news. If they really are up to such shenanigans with our (UK's) Nominet they need the boot.

I get the feeling there might be a whistle blower or two in the Nominet ranks. Which is fair enough, over the years we have seen some very poor behaviour from the top.