.UK Announced

[addz123]

although they stress that nothing has been decided and they are there to listen.

I keep hearing this and I'm f*cking tired of it.

The only reason Nominet says "nothing has been decided" is so that they deflect some of the flack and maintain deniability.

Then as soon as the consultation finishes, they'll announce they're going ahead with it and that will be it.

For all intense and purposes everyone (including nominet) should be acting as if this has already been decided because once the consultation is over, it's done. The fact they're running this 3 month consultation is basically proof they're about to launch it.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet 6th November

So they are proposing that to register a .uk you have to be a UK registrant yet a USA trademark holder has a valid claim ?

in phase 1 of proposal as it stands "holders of eligible registered tradmarks can apply for their corresponding domain names."

when I asked Nominet if EU trademarks where valid they stated basically yes and then added that any other country with reciprocal trade marks rights (subject to technical matching) would also have rights at this time, on further questions it was stated that the USA did have reciprocal rights and I'm sure lots of other countries will also have these rights.

Did they say the EU/USA trademark holder must have a registered business here in the UK? surely a requirement?

It was not a requirement they had a uk business, only that they had a current trademark on same basis as uk trademark. They would need a uk address on another section of the proposal but we all know how willing lawyers are to provide an address for a price!

Also it would appear that a image trademark with the words in the image would also be valid to obtain a domain.

So those holders that thought they were safe with a trademark may not be so safe. As these trademark rights are also tradable, even if the current holder may not be interested, somebody else might be.

Rgds
Stephen

 

[Stephen]

Nominet 6th November

Then as soon as the consultation finishes, they'll announce they're going ahead with it and that will be it.

the Nominet staff present at the meeting, were I believe genuine and as they have always been open about obtaining real feedback and ideas on how to develop the uk namespace. They also answered all questions fully.

I cannot form an opinion of the board of Nominet intentions as I'm not sure which ones present were board members.

I dont think it is a done deal yet but the feedback from industry tomorrow will be very important, as today there was a lot of vested interest in the rights and wrongs of the proposal.

Rgds
Stephen

 

[mojoco]

the Nominet staff present at the meeting, were I believe genuine and as they have always been open about obtaining real feedback and ideas on how to develop the uk namespace. They also answered all questions fully.

I cannot form an opinion of the board of Nominet intentions as I'm not sure which ones present were board members.

I dont think it is a done deal yet but the feedback from industry tomorrow will be very important, as today there was a lot of vested interest in the rights and wrongs of the proposal.

Rgds
Stephen

Was the meeting recorded ?

 

[scooter]

They would need a uk address on another section of the proposal but we all know how willing lawyers are to provide an address for a price!

I ship to Amazon fulfillment in the USA. It was a requirement that i had a USA address. You don't need a lawyer for this. Just 5 mins, a credit card and you have a legitimate USA address.
http://www.usa2me.com

I'm sure (without looking) there will be plenty of sites doing this in the UK



Do you, (as a trademark holder) have to prove you have activity online before their announcement? You may be a legit trademark holder UK/EU/USA that trades offline at present.

If you don't does the trademark holder that does have an online presence then take precedence over other non online trademark holders?

Does a simple "for sale" page constitute as online presence? It should as the domain, (trademark) is active.



Even after sunrise:
It is aimed at business. Do you have to be a registered business to be able to apply? What about a sole trader?

If you are a sole trader, how do they intend to police this? are you meant to send in your last years accounts?

Or, (as I suspect) like org.uk it is "meant" for whatever but we will not penalise you if you register anyway as it is all about money.


Is it going to be "free for all" after sunrise?






.

 

[Stephen]

Was the meeting recorded ?

It was not mentioned at the begining, I only noticed Eleanor Bradley (Nominet) making notes and there was one delegate from Cable and Wirless who was tying into his ipad the whole time.

I cannot find any new statments on the nominet website about the meeting today.

Rgds
stephen

 

[Stephen]

Do you, (as a trademark holder) have to prove you have activity online before their announcement? You may be a legit trademark holder UK/EU/USA that trades offline at present.

If you don't does the trademark holder that does have an online presence then take precedence over other non online trademark holders?

Does a simple "for sale" page constitute as online presence? It should as the domain, (trademark) is active.

All good points they expanded that eligibile will mean "real online or offline entity that has used the trademark" not just for the purposes of obtaining the .uk domain but if somebody makes up any story such saying it has traded and due to the economy weakness it is dormant but will come back again, will they stop it from having rights to enter auction or risk getting sued by the trademark holder for not getting the domain, when they have a valid trademark?

Rgds
Stephen

 

[monaghan]

Did find out that as proposal stands not only would eu trademark holders have first rights to the .uk also USA trademarks would also have rights over .co.uk owners as their is a reciprocal agreement with USA! Which even worse than I feared.

Are they making it up as they go along? How can a USA trademark be favoured over a UK business, isn't the main idea of .uk to promote UK business on the Internet and provide a secure base for this, if non UK business can take the names for a few quid a month to gain a UK postal address, then where's the trust that this is being sold on?

 

[Edwin]

the Nominet staff present at the meeting, were I believe genuine and as they have always been open about obtaining real feedback and ideas on how to develop the uk namespace. They also answered all questions fully.

I cannot form an opinion of the board of Nominet intentions as I'm not sure which ones present were board members.

I dont think it is a done deal yet but the feedback from industry tomorrow will be very important, as today there was a lot of vested interest in the rights and wrongs of the proposal.

There were no board members present. That was apparently deliberate, due to the blatant conflict of interest otherwise.

I also got the feeling that the Nominet staff that were there were genuine, sincere and receptive, both during the roundtable discussion itself and then one on one for over an hour afterwards (we had a wry grin and "see you tomorrow" at the end as I know and they know the same ground will get ploughed over again in Round 2 of discussion in the morning)

However, the ultimate decision may end up being taken behind closed doors "above their paygrade" - there's really no way of telling. (That's my take on the situation, not something they said or even implied)

 

[Edwin]

Are they making it up as they go along? How can a USA trademark be favoured over a UK business, isn't the main idea of .uk to promote UK business on the Internet and provide a secure base for this, if non UK business can take the names for a few quid a month to gain a UK postal address, then where's the trust that this is being sold on?

That part is actually the law, as far as I understand it anyway. Certain countries have reciprocal treaty agreements with the UK on trademark issues that Nominet can't overlook any more than anyone else can.

Put another way: I'm pretty sure Nominet would not want to extend rights more widely than they HAVE TO precisely because of the issue of public perception - it would play extremely badly. So any non-UK trademarks that are accepted as valid will be there because Nominet's hands were tied.

 

[Stephen]

That part is actually the law, as far as I understand it anyway. Certain countries have reciprocal treaty agreements with the UK on trademark issues that Nominet can't overlook any more than anyone else can.

Put another way: I'm pretty sure Nominet would not want to extend rights more widely than they HAVE TO precisely because of the issue of public perception - it would play extremely badly. So any non-UK trademarks that are accepted as valid will be there because Nominet's hands were tied.

It is only because Nominet has decided in its proposal to include trade mark holders having rights rather than simply .co.uk owners having the full rights to the .uk, then none of this would arise!

It may also be that other unregistered rights such as .eu domain holders with genric domains can enter into phase 2 auction stage?

There is no law that trademark holders have rights over .uk only the nominet proposal.

Rgds
Stephen

 

[Edwin]

Agreed. However, IF they do take trademark holders first, then they have to abide by these treaties (which was my point i.e. they can be attacked for the concept but not for some of the implementation details). As you know, I hope they don't, for reasons I've expounded upon at great length and repeatedly.

 

[foz]

I have a place booked tomorrow, if anybody has any questions they want me to raise, please pm or post, in addition to;

Why are the submissions to the consultation not going to be published in full and by the submitters name? Nominet are going to publish selectively and anonymous. I wonder why

 

[GreyWing]

Why are the submissions to the consultation not going to be published in full and by the submitters name? Nominet are going to publish selectively and anonymous. I wonder why

The say data protection nonsense, strange as they published them before

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d.jsp?idx=0&id=2946+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Disappearing web pages from Nominet's site again but they are all there. Full consultations and names.

On another note, the Garratt report initially said that Nominet's board could be open to a criminal complaint because it was like a cartel. Nominet talked it off but if someone gets a hold of the report, worth checking it out exactly what he said.

 

[foz]

strange as they published them before

For me that is why it stands out this time. .NZ published full submissions and by name so I don't buy the privacy argument that Nominet will likely respond with.

If the submissions are not in favour by 60-70%, Nominet may still move forward with it and the general public will be none the wiser as to the real feedback the consultation generated.

 

[monaghan]

That part is actually the law, as far as I understand it anyway. Certain countries have reciprocal treaty agreements with the UK on trademark issues that Nominet can't overlook any more than anyone else can.

Put another way: I'm pretty sure Nominet would not want to extend rights more widely than they HAVE TO precisely because of the issue of public perception - it would play extremely badly. So any non-UK trademarks that are accepted as valid will be there because Nominet's hands were tied.

So in other words they are telling us it is the new must have for UK business when in actual fact it is wider than the UK and there's nothing they can realistically do to restrict it to the UK so it is in effect just another TLD with a few bells & whistles and brings nothing special to the UK.

 

[GreyWing]

If the submissions are not in favour by 60-70%, Nominet may still move forward with it and the general public will be none the wiser as to the real feedback the consultation generated.

There WILL be an EGM before this goes forward (we already have the numbers for it), there is no doubt in that. One of the proposals in that EGM could be that all consultations are printed in full.

 

[foz]

There WILL be an EGM before this goes forward (we already have the numbers for it), there is no doubt in that. One of the proposals in that EGM could be that all consultations are printed in full.

If Nominet is not willing to change, can this sort of information be requested under the official information act (UK equivalent)?

 

[GreyWing]

If Nominet is not willing to change, can this sort of information be requested under the official information act (UK equivalent)?

Nope, Nominet isn't signed up to the Freedom of Information Act and doesn't need to comply as it is officially a private company.

 

[scooter]

Is it a "free for all" after sunrise? (as long as you have a UK address) or is it UK business only?

IE:
You have to prove you are a legitimate business. (including sole traders?)






.