.UK Consultation meeting

[websaway]

I have felt all along that there would be further consultation. if that were to be the case though I think they would have issued a statement before now.

 

[AssetDomains]

If domains would be dropped and never renewed because of a £50 reg fee, then arguably they should never have been registered in the first place anyway?

That's true in effect though this happens anyway just look at the daily drop lists 1000s drop each day.
£50 a year wouldn't make domainers/investors drop the real gems though all it would do is push the average joe starting out to an alternative registry

 

[Edwin]

At a time when 700 new extensions are coming out, the worst thing you could do is make your namespace the least affordable proposition (which is what would happen at £50/year).

Plus there's the tiny issue of the £450,000,000 windfall that would bring Nominet (simplistic model, assumes all domains renew, gives an "order of magnitude" figure) which no amount of PR finessing could hide.

 

[Edwin]

I'm not anti domains at all - I make my living from buying and using them.

Its a valid opinion - in fact I think its one that most of the general public would agree with if explained to them that some people were hoarding thousands of domains.

I didn't say "anti domain" I said "anti domainer" - the distinction is key.

You can enjoy meat and still dislike butchers. You can enjoy being healthy and still dislike doctors. But if you disliked doctors, you wouldn't (normally) hang out on a forum specifically meant for doctors to talk about their trade. Likewise, if you had a disdain for the butcher's craft, you wouldn't hang out on a forum intended for butchers.

It's the way you talk about things and the vocabulary you pick that seem to show a contempt for "domainers". Expressions like "hoarding", for instance. It's a cumulative effect, not just from one or two posts, but it's very very clear.

 

[foz]

End users resent paying a registration/renewal fee of ~£5 per year

Early on (1996) weren't .com $100?, that didn't see off the hoarders.

 

[Edwin]

Early on (1996) weren't .com $100?, that didn't see off the hoarders.

Ah, those were the days. When you had to fax your life story to Internic to register/transfer a domain name (or at least it felt like that).

 

[foz]

Its a valid opinion - in fact I think its one that most of the general public would agree with if explained to them that some people were hoarding thousands of domains.

No doubt the public would have the same feeling about investors and developers owning large tracks of land. An opinion is not going to make it an unlawful activity is it. Man will always seek out a return in whatever is for the taking and is within the rules.

 

[Retired_Member38]

There are already things in place to take land if its unused and needed though. Or even if it is used but needed for something else (compulsory purchases of houses as an example).

Plus there have been several proposals to increase tax on unused land, specifically to encourage it to actually be used. http://makewealthhistory.org/2013/05/15/the-case-for-a-land-value-tax/ Something like that would really be no different to setting domain registration fees to a level where it was more likely they'd be put to good use also.

 

[foz]

Putting reg/renewal fees up (regardless of the unquantifiable definition of "use") would not drive speculators away. It would just be built into the business model.

 

[Retired_Member38]

It would drive a significant portion of them away - their business models would be unsustainable with a huge increase in reg fees.

Its not going to affect someone trying to sell 100 domains worth £10,000 each - it will wipe out someone trying to sell 10,000 domains worth £100 each, and there is no way they can twist their business model to get around that.

 

[foz]

It would drive a significant portion of them away - their business models would be unsustainable with a huge increase in reg fees.

Its not going to affect someone trying to sell 100 domains worth £10,000 each - it will wipe out someone trying to sell 10,000 domains worth £100 each, and there is no way they can twist their business model to get around that.

The domains at £100 would not be domains that you would covet(?), so let them bolster the Registries cash flow I say.

 

[AssetDomains]

it will wipe out someone trying to sell 10,000 domains worth £100 each, and there is no way they can twist their business model to get around that.

What would the upside of this be to Nominet then who in effect would be trying to do the same thing at your pricepoint

 

[Retired_Member38]

No real upside to Nominet... just the UK in general.

 

[AssetDomains]

Why would a business care if they could get it from an investor for £100 or nominet

 

[Retired_Member38]

But thats the point - the domainer will want £500+. And he'll pay a few quid a year renewal forever, on the hope someone pays it. If it were £50 a year to renew it, he won't be able to run that business model and it will either be unregistered for the end user to buy, or he'll be buying from a domainer who actually has to shift inventory to run at a profit, and it'll be more reasonably priced.

 

[AssetDomains]

If its not worth £500 to the end user he wont get it so it will sit in their portfolio costing them money.
If its worth £500 then the buyer has to stump up the cash.
I cant afford the rent in the nicest area of town should I be able to get the 6 bedroom house with a pool in the area for the rent I'm paying now because the owner isn't using it.

 

[foz]

Anyway what a domainer pisses away in renewal fees is not your beef. Let the market find its balancing point. Domainers don't always come out on top.

 

[Retired_Member38]

If its not worth £500 to the end user he wont get it so it will sit in their portfolio costing them money.
If its worth £500 then the buyer has to stump up the cash.

But the carrying costs of domains is so close to zero that people can afford to sit on 1000's of them, and price them at silly amounts. It could be there for years before the owner gives up and deletes it, or cuts the price. Having an actual cost to doing this, would make them far more likely to delete it, develop it, or sell it. Exactly like the proposals for a land value tax are aimed at.

Just because a domain is worth £500, doesn't mean a buyer can get it for £500. With no real pressure on the sellers to do anything due to the extremely low domain registration costs, he can list it for £2500 and hold it for the next 10 years if he wants. Great for the domainer alone... not so great for the general public. Again looking to 'real' property as an example, thats what the CPO's are for - to force houses to be sold for the greater good, to run a motorway through the area or whatever.

 

[AssetDomains]

thats what the CPO's are for - to force houses to be sold for the greater good, to run a motorway through the area or whatever.

How many Real public consultations do the authorities have to go through to be granted CPO. Even then these things are often held up in the court for years before going through.
Lets take a different analogy didn't you say the other day you had a number of holiday rental properties.
What if the authorities in the area said were going to put up taxes on second properties to point were investment to make a profit becomes unfeasible because locals cant afford to buy/rent here. What would think of that idea would you be fine with that

 

[Stephen]

Disagree but thanks for starting the debate

No real upside to Nominet... just the UK in general.

Thanks for posting your views Monkey, even though I disagree, it does encourage healthy debate and sharing ideas / problems on which way the UK namespace should develop.

Disagree as you would expect from somebody has 8,000+ .co.uk domains for sale at £200 -£500, for Nominet to increase prices in UK domains, never mind the £50 pa you put forward.
I see the problems for me and businesses in general, I don't see the upside!

This would change the model of the UK namespace and doesn't take account of the consequences to the UK economy and new businesses;

1. UK for being the cheapest country tld to the most expensive - what message is that sending to outside investors that are trying to be attracted to the UK, they would not understand Nominet is not government.
2. The prime UK tld's that UK industry require to acquire in the secondary market will go from £5,000 to £20,000 (not as much as renewal fee % but a large absolute).
3. The UK namespace is effectively shrinking anyway and there are still suitable FTR UK domains for any organization available that wants to go online.
4. For a typical business that owns 10 domains that protect trade name, company names, key products names, hyphens and plurals. The increase in renewal costs goes from £25 pa to £500 pa. So over the next 10 years £5,000 gone, for what purpose or gain for that typical business?
5. The business that wants a UK would typically be able to pay a decent domain for £500. And if the renewal fee went up to £50 must of those would be dropped and the new business would be able to acquire it for £50 but the downside is they have to pay the plural etc. and there annual cost even on 5 domains would be £250 pa, it will not take long before the initial saving is eroded.
6. Some people with the £500 or less valued domain will not drop them and yet the new business will feel that is still the domain they require, before price £500, after extra renewal costs the price is going to be over £1000.

Domain investing in the UK will just move to another extension and you could see the growth of .com.uk and .net.uk.

Real business will just move to new GLTD's to keep costs down and you will not have a UK namespace of any volume after a few years.
Nominet and the UK government are trying to step in to run/govern the internet and being the 2nd largest country tld helps there credibility and their believe they are right to rule, dropping down the world volume rankings will spoil that plan!

I don't see the suggestion helping the UK economy just making more for a few holders of really prime UK domains that would put up there prices.

Strange that in my opinion there are some merits on new extension like .gb adopting the approach of a large £200 fee to register and then £10 pa to ensure that more names would be available for new businesses for the reg fee.