UK just got shafted again

[Pred]

I believe we just got shafted again guys
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15769886

remember when brown sold all our gold to the chinese at the worst moment?

well, we paid to bail out northern rock
then the gov sacked over half the staff anyways
they just sold the best bit at a LOSS of about half a billion to a billionaire, branson
when the markets are at an alltime low and confidence couldnt be worse

and we're left holding the shitty bit with potentially 21 billion losses

this is unreal

 

[getmein]

Given that markets could go lower and confidence could get worse, I think they've got a decent exit. Added to which, the government isn't much good at running businesses, so I'm sure they are more than happy to be out. Like you say, the big loss will come from the toxic stuff that's been nationalised, which frankly makes the haircut on the rest of it look like peanuts.

No real reason for Branson to risk his capital without feeling he got a good deal and ultimately it was the best deal on the table. I'm sure he'll do very well out of it on a 10 year view.

 

[dougs]

maybe I am missing something

remember when brown sold all our gold to the chinese at the worst moment?

It was sold on the open market at the going price at the time, that generally means that is what the world thought it was worth on that day - hindsight is wonderful



well, we paid to bail out northern rock

The US gov let Lehmans fail and that is classed by most economists as the
worse think they could have done, and may have caused musg of the mess now.

they just sold the best bit at a LOSS of about half a billion to a billionaire, branson

It's the best offer on the table, so that is what it is worth


when the markets are at an alltime low and confidence couldnt be worse

and markets are generally not predicted to increase much in the next few years...if the Euro collapses or Greece majorly defaults that sale may seem a great deal for the gov.


Doug

 

[Pred]

It was sold on the open market at the going price at the time, that generally means that is what the world thought it was worth on that day - hindsight is wonderful

it was sold at record lows. it was one of the biggest mistakes ever made by a chancelleor. and wasn't just one day. it was over and over again
also the bank of england repeatedly warned against it, and they are withholding most information about it
i've took the most conservative links for you Doug
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...you-sold-Britains-gold-Gordon-Brown-told.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

we sold off over 60% of our gold reserves. so worse than selling the family silver
sold just before we embarked on all the failed wars. so all our money squandered and sold at record lows to rival countries and it paid for death and destruction
you may be okay with that Doug, but God help us if most of the country feel this way
gold is the mainstay, the safest asset as EVERY economist knows and has been this way for thousands of years. why sell it all?
well, we know labour pissed billions and wasted much on failed ventures and we paid for it all. not just with tax revenue but as it turns out with our 'family savings' built up over possibly generations
we can't buy it back and probably may never reach those low levels again. how we could do with it now!

The US gov let Lehmans fail and that is classed by most economists as the
worse think they could have done, and may have caused musg of the mess now.

no. I think you'll find the way governments closed their eyes to the way huge financial organisations were running themselves and did hardly any regulation was one of the main problems. along with the risky financial practices.
along with massive internal fraud
as I remember Lehmans was divided up and bought out in double quicktime by barclays and bob diamonds and other banks. like a day or two

also I think the US Gov and UK gov bailed out enough banks as it was, theres only so much money. I know they keep printing more thinking that will solve it

It's the best offer on the table, so that is what it is worth

Doug, you seem to be a successful businessman but that's twice you are suggesting taking the best price even though rock bottom and when confidence at record low
I know you wouldn't do this with your own assets so why the hell are we accepting this on our national ones
we bailed it out, therefore we own it. how can we just piss all that money down the drain. everything recovers in time. sell at a profit or get money back in future? i know it's a novel idea lol
the gov authorised sacking 3000 of the 5500 workforce when they took over anyway
what was saved here, reallly?
branson was desperate to buy this too. they knew that. he kept trying to buy at time, we said no. he wanted to bail out. he tried again in 2008, we said no.
we got royally screwed. this was a terrible decision and we're still holding the worst debts

and markets are generally not predicted to increase much in the next few years...if the Euro collapses or Greece majorly defaults that sale may seem a great deal for the gov.

everyone is predicting gloom. hence the panic and when fortunes are made by those few. this exact thing has happened here. cant you see?
theres loads of storms ahead, and we are currently bailing out many sinking ships
we have come through worse whatever they say. did you read the 'deal we just got? how on earth can it be a good thing?

 

[Pred]

just to put in laymans terms
we paid a gold bar for the good bit. branson bought it for half a gold bar
we have minus hundreds of gold bars still in toxic debt, the shit bit

so we bought when we didnt have to and branson was willing. took all the risk and made the hard decisions and sold when we didnt have to

for the small amount we got back, the mod just pissed away the same figure on 'consultants'. without being allowed
which is illegal. it all comes out the same pot. our cash
take as red there will be no ramifications or prosecutions. however if you withheld £600 from your council tax, let alone 600 million like mod wasted, then you or i would be banged up


angry yet?

 

[GreyWing]

The pillock Brown told the world how much Gold he was going to sell as well. With that much Gold hitting the market the price dropped.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but as pred says, he was told over and over again by the best brains in the business. Brown was a joke, his legacy is of an unelected bully who came up with sayings such as "No More Boom and Bust", we all thought he meant the "Bust" bit.

His baby boy is trying to take over now though, apprentice Ed Balls. He gets in and I'm off out of this country for good.

 

[Pred]

yeah, balls the 'economic luminary' lol as they hail him
yeah, he presided over many an economic fuck up
he's just an ex hack with a suitable name

it actually scares me how uninformed many people are
if it wasn't my childrens future at stake I'd bugger off too and just say you get what you deserve twats

 

[GreyWing]

They stood outside parliament this year and interviewed MP's on Channel 4 as they left work, none of them knew how much the national debt was. Some thought it was £125 million pounds....

Not on of them had a clue, even the shadow chancellor at the time Alan Johnson didn't know.

One fact that says it all,

Conservatives party should be made bankrupt 20m in debt
Labour should be declared bankrupt 30m in debt
Lib Dems could be made bankrupt at about 4m but little income to pay it off.

So good to see what got the best of the best running the country.

 

[namestrands]

being a numbers man myself, does anyone else find it somewhat ironic that the amount is 747 and selling to a self-made millionaire who started in airlines. Just an observation.

 

[Pred]

oh, and they wont be able to answer any questions about this sudden sale to the house or the press as theyre all off on a 'mini break'
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:20fb87d9-f3d8-4cce-9802-c5a566944335

 

[MCNM]

I feel its a good thing for the market as it will increase competition and give all the other lenders a kick up the ass to start lending again, which will of course grow the economy, more jobs e.t.c.

Money makes money.

Its not all bad the UK government could get up to 1 Billion, this is an extract taken from an email i receive being an Intermediary:

Virgin Money’s purchase involves an initial payment to the Treasury of £747m cash, but could eventually yield £1bn for the Government. Around £50m more cash will be paid within six months. Virgin Money will then issue the Treasury with Tier 1 Capital Notes with a par value of £150m and an annual coupon of 10.5%.

The Treasury also expects to receive an additional cash consideration of £50m to £80m after a stock market listing or sale in the next five years, depending on market conditions.

There is also talk of Virgin buying the Lloyds branches aswell.

A link to the article is here: http://www.introducertoday.co.uk/news_features/sale-of-northern-rock-should-shake-up-banking-sector

 

[Edwin]

Actually, from what I was reading it sounded like the "bad" part (left to the Government) is currently turning a profit so, while it may be a decade or more until all the loans it is holding mature and are repaid, it is NOT clear that the taxpayers will end up in any way out of pocket.

 

[dougs]

when to sell

Pred

I have a simple philosophy I almost always sell when someone makes me an offer that I deem reasonable. My price depends on some simple factors:

how much do I need the money
do I think it's a decent price
what will I do with the money

I have seen many people in this industry especially hold onto stuff in the belief that it is worth more. I don't belive in storing stuff because one day it will be worth more......thats living in hope.

So I don't know the details of any of the deals, but Gold especially was trading in an open market. GB may have taken the cash and bough Google shares.......so now is he wise or stupid?


Doug

 

[GreyWing]

So I don't know the details of any of the deals, but Gold especially was trading in an open market. GB may have taken the cash and bough Google shares.......so now is he wise or stupid?
Doug

If GB had any successes Doug believe me we would have heard of them, if he bought shares anywhere it would have been in Woolworths.

The guy also takes a salary of £65k a year plus expenses for being an MP, voted once since may 2010 and turned up only one more time when Obama came to town.

Sorry, my hate of that man goes deep.

 

[MCNM]

Actually, from what I was reading it sounded like the "bad" part (left to the Government) is currently turning a profit so, while it may be a decade or more until all the loans it is holding mature and are repaid, it is NOT clear that the taxpayers will end up in any way out of pocket.

I know on the mortgage side that if a customers mortgage falls under the Northern Rock Assest Management that they can not do a product transfer with Northern Rock they have to fully re-mortgage with another lender meaning Northern Rock will get the full amount owed back or they stay on there current SVR rate which is 4.79% but with some products there is a loading as well of 2-3% so the rate the customer is being charged could be around 7.79% which again Northern Rock will be profiting greatly!

 

[binny]

Pity we couldn't have Branson running the country, I'd have been happy to give him Northern Rock for free in return for 5 years of decent leadership.

 

[namestrands]

Branson comes off too sleazy and his reputation is awful.. I want Hugh Grant to be Prime Minister ;-)

 

[binny]

Branson is sleazy in comparison to who? Tony Blair, Michael Portillo, David Cameron, the Milibands, Prescott?

 

[namestrands]

They are all a shower of numpties.. if I am being honest. It is a sad state of affairs when there is not a single politician that I would consider to be worthy of running this country.

 

[websaway]

I question the wisdom of bailing the bank out in the first place, I think the capitalist system has to be left to it's own devices and not undermined, but having taken over the bank it was essential to get it away from state ownership at the earliest opportunity.
I also question the low interest rates underpinning property values that have led to the survival of the feckless who borrowed recklessly, pushing property prices out of proportion to incomes, and which is punishing the sensible who have worked and saved and helped the capitalist system to flourish. Most asset values fall in a recession ( that's part of the game) and that allows the flushing out of weak business and property owners and creates opportunity for the redistribution of wealth. Property prices are being underpinned on a never seen before scale and again this undermines the system which has given hope to so many young people in the past.

Though in defence of those who have had to make the decisions over the last three years, they are between a rock and a hard place.

As for those who were on watch during the former years and who have kept their ill gotten gains and who pay for lavish lifestyles by simply writing about their errors - they will never be held to account.