Bin Laden: Shoot To Kill

[BREWSTERS]

I've read them both but obviously missed the parts that aren't based solely on theory and supposition. Perhaps you can point to the part where they show the results of their own metallurgical tests.

Why? So you can completely ignore them and then ask me to show you something else?

Just look at the temp figures they used for their models to explain the collapse, then cross-reference them with their own figures for actual temperates. Why would they use false figures? Why do the authorities accept them knowing they're wrong? Because they can. There are literally thousands of scientists who disagree. What voice do they have? Only the internet...so that makes them wackos I suppose? Because they're not on the telly.

While you're at it, perhaps you could point me to data showing what has happened in the past when passenger jets have crashed into skyscrapers built to the same design that the WTC's were.

Seeing as no-one - NO-ONE has yet offered a fact in defense of the official story after 14 pages, then I'm pretty much through with showing you all proof. I can't make you see through closed eyes.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Brewsters, for a conspiracy you must have conspirators, so i say again, please provide the hard evidence of these conspirators carrying out this deed, try going beyond the copious links to bollocks and pictures. Or is that too much to expect from all the thousands of experts and theorists?

I've answered this already - I don't know who pulls the strings at the White House.


All these questions and not one fact coming back...why's that guys?

 

[BREWSTERS]

I find the above quite offensive, "goat herders" as you call them managed to inspire or possibly even order 7/7 killing loads of innocent Brits. Madrid was inspired by goat herders and the fuck ups in Scotland, i think that was inspired by goat herders too.

These "goat herders" as you call them are very well educated and very well funded, have access to the internet so can spread their ideology without constraint and have hundreds of bored, impressionable young boys waiting to listen to their rhetoric.

Whatever your opinion on what happened I find your description of the people 99.9% of people find responsible, distasteful for a number of reasons!

Thats a pretty fair term for many of the Taliban. That said, I believe that 7/7 was also orchestrated by the same who did 911, Madrid, etc.

If they (Al Qaeda) are as sophisticated as you claim, why couldn't they issue anything better than grainy old VHS tapes of their leader....now that's all bollocks.

And your figures are well out - not that most of you feel that that's important;

The 9/11 Zogby Polls
41 percent of New York State residents agree with the belief that US government leaders knew about 9/11 in advance and consciously allowed it to happen, according to an August 2004 telephone survey of 800 adults. Commissioned by 911Truth.org, the survey also found that two-thirds of New York City residents support a new independent investigation into the crimes of September 11th. Thanks to the Zogby poll, 911Truth.org was able to show that the numbers of people harboring well-justified doubts about the Official Story are growing, and that 9/11 truth is a mainstream position. In a follow-up, we conducted the WBAI-FM/911Truth.org New York Lawmaker Survey of city, state and federal legislators representing constituencies in New York City. We aim to marshal support among members of the New York state assembly and senate, city council, and US congress for a new criminal investigation of September 11th, whether by the New York Attorney General, the Congress or a new, truly independent, non-governmental and non-corporate body. In May, 2006, 911Truth.org commission Zogby International to conduct another poll, this time national in scope. Results of that poll, which found that over 70 million voting age Americans distrust the official 9/11 story and support a new investigation of possible US government role in the attacks. Details are in our press release. Briefly, poll results indicated 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure).

 

[BREWSTERS]

What do you think about Roswell new mexico 1947?

I don't know anything about it but as I don't believe in aliens, I imagine it's nonsense.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Can you watch this and Debunk it for me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZipbgXOJoc

No. Do you want to come and mow my lawn?

 

[BREWSTERS]

Apart from sarcasm and sniggering, not one of the believers have come forward with a fact that they see as proof that the official story is true.

You've got to be asking yourselves why? I would be. If I couldn't explain why I believe something I'd have serious doubts. Or is ignorance bliss?

Do you need some help? Here you go then, try and finish this sentence with a fact;

"911 cannot possibly have been an inside job because...."

 

[BREWSTERS]

That'd be a no would it?

I've shown you plenty that you choose to disregard - I think it's time you guys showed me something in return.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm

 

[BREWSTERS]

"The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only fire at such a height that was ever successfully controlled"

I also asked for a building of the same design as the WTC's.

The first collapse happened 56 minutes after the impact. Also, the empire state was much older, designed to an older spec.

As for what 'you asked for' ... until you come up with a fact that proves your belief, I'd say you're out of credit on asking. When you come up with something, maybe I'll indulge you again.


Anyway...no planes hit WTC7 at all...

 

[GreyWing]

The first collapse happened 56 minutes after the impact. Also, the empire state was much older, designed to an older spec.

As for what 'you asked for' ... until you come up with a fact that proves your belief, I'd say you're out of credit on asking. When you come up with something, maybe I'll indulge you again.

Their was little aviation fuel in the Empire states building fire, he was coming in to land so was nearly empty, it was flying at about 220mph as it was trying to land, it didn't weigh anything like the 2 jets that hit the WTC, the building was constructed much differently. The ESB didn't have 40+ floors weighing down on the impact zone.

Hardly similar..

 

[BREWSTERS]

For those that claim the people being vocal against the official story are wackos etc...

http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

Architects and engineers.

The are also pilots for 911 truth; firefighters for 911 truth, etc.

 

[GreyWing]

For those that claim the people being vocal against the official story are wackos etc...

http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

Architects and engineers.

The are also pilots for 911 truth; firefighters for 911 truth, etc.

Petitions like that are unquantifiable unless you have days and days of free time to find out who each person is and if it was actually them that added their names to it.

It's the same nonsense as global warming debate line "scientists say" .....

 

[BREWSTERS]

Their was little aviation fuel in the Empire states building fire, he was coming in to land so was nearly empty, it was flying at about 220mph as it was trying to land, it didn't weigh anything like the 2 jets that hit the WTC, the building was constructed much differently. The ESB didn't have 40+ floors weighing down on the impact zone.

Hardly similar..

It was an older design, not intended to take such a strike. The WTC were. There were still 23 floors above the impact.
The ESB needed a simple patch job - both the towers totally collapsed...in near freefall time.

................

If your beliefs depend entirely on the plane/fire scenario, how on earth can you explain WTC7?

 

[BREWSTERS]

Petitions like that are unquantifiable unless you have days and days of free time to find out who each person is and if it was actually them that added their names to it.

It's the same nonsense as global warming debate line "scientists say" .....

So, are you saying those are all false? Or maybe 10% of them; 20%; 30%?

You wish to discount them all on the grounds that perhaps some aren't kosher? What if they're all for real? Would that make you think?

 

[GreyWing]

It was an older design, not intended to take such a strike. The WTC were. There were still 23 floors above the impact.
The ESB needed a simple patch job - both the towers totally collapsed...in near freefall time.

................

If your beliefs depend entirely on the plane/fire scenario, how on earth can you explain WTC7?

Cars are designed to keep people safe, but people still die every day in them.

I have no idea about WTC7, I guess a little search on the internet will provide the answer but I don't think I'll bother because I know you will say it's part of the conspiracy.

But I guess the conspirators are that stupid they would just explode a building and not assume anyone would get suspicious.

 

[BREWSTERS]

Cars are designed to keep people safe, but people still die every day in them.

??? You'd have a much better chance of survival in one car than one designed 40 years earlier - not the other way round.

I have no idea about WTC7, I guess a little search on the internet will provide the answer but I don't think I'll bother

Jeezuz - that just about sums it all up! Get your head back in the sand before you find out something that might challenge you.

because I know you will say it's part of the conspiracy.

Now you're really showing your ingnorance of the subject.

But I guess the conspirators are that stupid they would just explode a building and not assume anyone would get suspicious.

No, but with control of the mass media, they knew that they'd be able convince enough suckers who can't be bothered to find out (see above) or simply don't think that using false figure would matter.

 

[GreyWing]

Now you're really showing your ingnorance of the subject.

Nope I'm showing my knowledge of you and your attitude, but when I do that yep "ignorance" is probably a word I would use.

 

[EdwinEdwin is verified member.]

Can somebody please remind me how I can "ignore" a particular poster? Thanks!

 

[BREWSTERS]

Nope I'm showing my knowledge of you and your attitude, but when I do that yep "ignorance" is probably a word I would use.

You've been happy to ask me multiple questions to which I've given answers. I ask you one direct question and your response is that you can't be bothered to find an answer even though you're convinced you can do so in a few minutes.

Who is the ignorant one?

WTC7 is a massive part of the whole scam. If you're not even aware of it then you must know less than 5% of the evidence for or against the official story.

If you're happy to carry on believing what you do based on so little, I'd say that ignorance is an over riding trait.

 

[EdwinEdwin is verified member.]

"Ten years after 9/11, the conspiracy theorist nutjobs are still telling lies"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...racy-theorist-nutjobs-are-still-telling-lies/

 

[matmat is verified member.]

An interesting read about WTC7

Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom—approximately 10 stories—about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors—along with the building's unusual construction—were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.