Confused

[Aiden Roberts]

I am trying to get my head around this dropcatching malarchy, thought I had it figured then over the last few days a number of suspended domains have been renewed a day before they were due to drop?

How?

This isn't fair to drop catchers or inquisitive's like me, I have viewed the other threads about certain registrars who have caveats in their TC's but this just isn't a level playing field.

Rant over

Aiden

 

[GreyWing]

People may go through their lists two days in advance and then contact the owners with cash, the owner renews and sorts a deal or something out later.

Happens a lot, that could be one reason. Or two they just like peeing catchers off, that happens too

I like to do it sometimes to lol but in truth there are loads of reasons for it.

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Thanks Greywing

I understand but I was under the impression that there comes a point where the registrant is too late and it has to drop. Based on what you are saying at any point up to the drop date the registrant can sell it, transfer it and it can then be renewed as part of the process; is that correct?

If it is then why don't cash rich name investors cherry pick all the good suspended names and make hard to refuse offers, therefore no good names will ever drop; or do they?

Secondly you say you stop them from dropping. How?

Just curious

Thanks
Aiden

 

[GreyWing]

Thanks Greywing

I understand but I was under the impression that there comes a point where the registrant is too late and it has to drop. Based on what you are saying at any point up to the drop date the registrant can sell it, transfer it and it can then be renewed as part of the process; is that correct?

If it is then why don't cash rich name investors cherry pick all the good suspended names and make hard to refuse offers, therefore no good names will ever drop; or do they?

Secondly you say you stop them from dropping. How?

Just curious

Thanks
Aiden

You can stop them pretty easy, renew them through most registrar control panels. I use Nom's web domain manager as I'm a tag holder. Nom won't allow you to renew with them or they won't stop it from dropping on the day of drop but your registrar can stop it.

Contact details for web owners is one reason why names still get to dropping point, some people are hard to trace.

But yep some registrars allow renewal on day or drop, some don't but it can easily be done.

 

[wb]

As above, but also the registrant often doesn't change after renewal so it's likely that once they have been reminded they decide they want to keep it after all.

 

[Aiden Roberts]

And here is my answer:


After a 60 day suspension period the domain name will be cancelled and will then be immediately available for re-registration by someone else. At any point during the suspension, your registrar can renew the domain name for you and the suspension will be lifted. We will send you one final reminder seven days before the domain name is cancelled (83 days after the expiry date).

So the registrar can renew right up to the drop date. In theory then only names no longer wanted will drop, not names that have been mistakenly overlooked?

 

[Aiden Roberts]

How do I find out which registrars will do this? Obviously I could ask them all but off the top off your head do you know who does. It seems to me that the drop system isn't what I thought it was rather it's simply unwanted names and hard to find registrants, I thought there was more to it than that.

 

[namestrands]

The goal posts are being shifted around a bit for sure. There are occasions where domains can go beyond the 60, a few TAGS in particular appear to be able to do this. I was just informed by another member that this can be down to auto-renew being enabled then domain is renewed but invoices dont get paid so the domain goes back to being suspended for an amount of time depending on the credit agreement they have with nominet.

The likely increase in renewed domains after suspension is that there are more and more domainers approaching the registrants direct and offering sums of money, they either accept or counteroffer either way it leads to a renewal.

I think to avoid this it may be worthwhile going the way of the TLDs and levy a higher fee to remove from Suspension.

While there is nothing wrong with opportunistic domainers approaching owners there are those who use questionable tactics in doing so for the purpose of bypassing the drop procedures.

There are even those who when a domain is back-ordered via there own drop catch system they actively seek out to purchase before dropping and retain it for themselves.

Unfortunately there will always be these kinds of people, its best to let them get on with it as karma has a way of fixing things.

 

[Aiden Roberts]

Wow! I am clearly still very naive but I suppose where there is money involved I shouldn't expect everything to be equal.

Thanks namestrands

 

[GreyWing]

Wow! I am clearly still very naive but I suppose where there is money involved I shouldn't expect everything to be equal.

Thanks namestrands

Everything is equal, but you can't join a football match in the 85th minute and complain that the other players are warmer than you.

Catching isn't far off being finished anyway, 2 maybe three years and nothing worth anything will reach dropping point. As it is, the names dropping 2 years ago compared to now are world's apart, 2 years before that they were galaxies apart. I chose the analogy of the 85th minute of a football match for a reason... I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the state of the pitch with 5 minutes to og.

 

[namestrands]

lol.. yes great analogy. However industries change, had we listened to those back in the days of Londons Horse and Carts and the screams that London would be under 12 inches of crap if it continued to grow.. Then along came the Automobile. The same can be said about the parking industry, many think it dead but in reality its in a sort of limbo at the moment waiting for CPA to come up with a format that will work. And for the industry to realise that its inevitable.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Although dropcatching is on the decline, I do hold out hope that it will help spur a new market of equal excitement and innovation.

If I knew what that market was then you can be sure I would not share it with you bunch of wannabie me's (lol. I jest of course)

 

[stellar73]

I'm with Aiden in also being massively confused with what seems to be a plethora of different (unfair) rules.....

A few weeks ago I was after a name which passed it's drop date without dropping. 3 days later I contacted Nominet to see what the problem was and got this reply:-

"The domain name xxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk is not falling within the usual timeline because the registrar initiated a renewal for it but has not completed it. As the result of this, the suspension only started on 18 October 2011 and it will not be cancelled until sixty days after the the start of the suspension. At any point before then, the registrar could complete the renewal and the domain name would not drop at all".

The registrar in question was an individual with their own tag, not sure if this makes a difference though. Just fail to understand why it can be allowed to enter what is effectively a second period of suspension when they have still not paid for the name!?

 

[namestrands]

I, and others have raised this issue with Nominet and as I mentioned before its down to a credit control issue. Nominet should not be encouraging such practice and should be taking action on these repeat offenders. However that is my personal opinion, and Nominet should be free to deal with TAG holders within there own terms.

What is clear is that of late a lot of issues are being brought into the spotlight and as they should. Which is a sign of change normally, or testing of the waters.

I would suggest EVERY tag holder voice their concerns to Nominet and take part in the Policy Groups, otherwise you will have the larger registrars dictating without a true representation of the Community.

May I suggest that you have an election on the forum to put forward a candidate for the nominet Board to ensure fair representation of the secondary domain industry.. I understand Nora From SEDO is already on the board, but not up to date on what she has brought to the table perhaps others could fill in these blanks.

 

[Admin]

I have to agree with your comments on the quality of names dropping - and if the domain registration period for a .UK gets extended to an optional XX years (like .COMs) then the quality will get even worse.

Are people putting more time into digging out the nuggets from drop lists (with less chance of actually catching it) or focusing their time and skills on something else?

Admin

 

[GreyWing]

I'm with Aiden in also being massively confused with what seems to be a plethora of different (unfair) rules.....

A few weeks ago I was after a name which passed it's drop date without dropping. 3 days later I contacted Nominet to see what the problem was and got this reply:-

"The domain name xxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk is not falling within the usual timeline because the registrar initiated a renewal for it but has not completed it. As the result of this, the suspension only started on 18 October 2011 and it will not be cancelled until sixty days after the the start of the suspension. At any point before then, the registrar could complete the renewal and the domain name would not drop at all".

The registrar in question was an individual with their own tag, not sure if this makes a difference though. Just fail to understand why it can be allowed to enter what is effectively a second period of suspension when they have still not paid for the name!?

Paper invoices, emailed invoices, direct debit, cheques, late payments there are loads of reasons.

Clouddesign.co.uk it's one of mine (look at the whois dates for it). I don't have automatic payments set up as a registrar. If the registrar in this case me, forgets to pay Nominet, they take off the 2 years back off exp date on the whois, and send a reminder to the registrar. If I do forget some nice man or woman from Nominet's billing department call me on my mobile and take payment over the phone from my card.

There is nothing suspicious about it, the registrar might just have forgot to pay Nominet on time.

 

[namestrands]

I think for the most part domainers are lazy bastards.. lets be honest about that when it comes to checking drop lists many rely on others to prepare and make available.

Real research goes from targeting an array of names, subject etc and monitoring them for changes or potential opportunities.

Then you have to think of the reasons why you want that domain, is it for flip and sell or is it to build a brand or market.

 

[stellar73]

I, and others have raised this issue with Nominet and as I mentioned before its down to a credit control issue. Nominet should not be encouraging such practice and should be taking action on these repeat offenders.

Thanks Namestrands, I agree with most of what you're saying however I'm not sure they can get away with saying it's a credit control issue. Surely that would suggest a sale (or legal agreement to renew the name) had taken place and the payment just hadn't gone through yet?

Looking at the email Nominet sent me it would suggest there is no agreement to pay in place as they are clearly indicating that the name may still drop. As far as I understand their email they've effectively allowed the registrar a further free option on the name for a second period of 60 days with absolutely no obligation for the registrar to complete the renewal.

I agree the system sucks though, in this instance I had already paid a public catcher upfront to try and catch the name.....Obviously I can transfer the credit but it's still a waste of time and resources

 

[GreyWing]

As far as I understand their email they've effectively allowed the registrar a further free option on the name for a second period of 60 days with absolutely no obligation for the registrar to complete the renewal.

That isn't true, they registrar has to pay the bill. They can not just ignore it or cancel the name later on for a reduced invoice. Those invoices once made up are live and need to be paid, if they don't get paid within 30 days of being late then Nominet suspend the registrar's account.

The same money is being paid, it just looks a bit wonky on the whois page. But remember Nominet's billing system is built for the customer, the registrar and Nominet not for drop catchers to have an easy life.

 

[stellar73]

There is nothing suspicious about it, the registrar might just have forgot to pay Nominet on time.

If they'd forgotten to pay but there was an agreement in place that they were going to pay then surely Nominet should EITHER consider this a renewal, NOT have the name listed as suspended and simply chase for their payment OR they should have a system where this simply cant happen, ie no payment no name and the name is released on the original drop date for someone else to buy.

I dont see how they can have it both ways, doesnt make sense at all!

 

[namestrands]

Those are the risks you take, after a while you come to realise who the CREDIT offenders are and you take pot luck.

Dare I say I do have blind faith in Nominet to do the right thing, perhaps naive to some but I have to trust that they do what is in the best interest of the community. I do actually recognise their argument however I dont agree with them allowing it to continue with tag holders consistently not meeting agreed credit terms, it sets a bad precedence.

But again its down to Nominet how they run there business. And its up to us to contact them with our complaints.