Corona please read very important

[Richard K]

Prize of the day for Stupid...

No, not just the people still using the Underground...

TFL for slashing the number of Tube trains running.

Obviously, the fewer trains are running, the more crushed each carriage will be.

And to make matters worse, some of these people are key workers who have no alternative but to use the tube (which is the stated reason they've kept the underground running at all).

The last thing we should be doing is hemming frontline NHS workers in like this – for our sakes as much as theirs.

 

[dee]

Total lockdown is coming. London probably first followed by everywhere. We can't seem to look after ourselves so it's going to have to be done.

 

[websaway]

Masks have to be disposed of every day.

The NHS can't get enough masks to protect its own staff safely, let alone give them out to everyone else.

In countries that have a regular "custom" of mask wearing during flu/hayfever season (e.g. Japan) and where therefore the stock is dozens or hundreds of times greater than in the UK, it has been one element (of many) that has contributed to slowing the spread of the virus.

Yes that's the rubbish that's been spouted. If nobody had the virus because of wearing masks you would not have to change the mask every time you take it off. Medical staff naturally have more stringent rules because they are in close proximity to the sick. Not rocket science, no matter how it's spun. If masks reduce the risk of random transfer then they should have been mass produced and distributed at an early stage.

 

[DaveP]

Total lockdown is coming. London probably first followed by everywhere. We can't seem to look after ourselves so it's going to have to be done.

The only way these idiots will wake up is a full lock down. Also the threat of a hefty fine for anyone with the symptoms not self-isolating would help.

 

[Siusaidh]

Maybe a travel pass could be given to key workers, which has to be shown before going through the ticket barriers. Being a healthcare professional myself, I think all these people still congregating and travelling unnecessarily are taking the piss of us. Taking the piss of everyone in fact.

 

[Siusaidh]

What I don't understand is why are some pubs and restaurants still open? I mean, today Macdonalds and Nandos announce they are closing. Fine. But it shouldn't be a decision from them to make. They, and ALL these places, should have been closed from Friday because they had to. Enforced.

China or Russia would look at us and think we are so soft. For once I would agree with them. I feel in this country we have gone softly softly, and tried to be trusting, but we are following the Italian rate of infection and deaths. It's basic: you take personal responsibility, or the country will take responsibility instead, and kick your ass if you choose to be selfish.

This isn't right-wing authoritarianism. It's compassion in exceptional times.

 

[dee]

What I don't understand is why are some pubs and restaurants still open? I mean, today Macdonalds and Nandos announce they are closing. Fine. But it shouldn't be a decision from them to make. They, and ALL these places, should have been closed from Friday because they had to. Enforced.

I think it was Glasgow had the right idea on this. They put out a notice saying that they knew some pubs are defying clampdowns so they had given police authority to health issue 24 forced closedowns that would be getting enforced immediately. Can be issued every day if needed. They would then be making a point of letting liscensing board know who had defied closures so they wouldnt get license. Waste of time for the Police of course.

 

[super-whois]

they had given police authority to health issue 24 forced closedowns that would be getting enforced immediately.

Police already had that authority to suspend a license for up to 24 hours, there is no new authority there. There are also ASBO dispersal options that could be implemented now, without the need for any new authority, because surely ignoring the advice and being selfish is Anti-Social Behaviour.

Problem as others have said is that the Goverment are too soft.

 

[Siusaidh]

The only way these idiots will wake up is a full lock down. Also the threat of a hefty fine for anyone with the symptoms not self-isolating would help.

I'm worried in case the government just targets people WITH the virus who don't self-isolate. That bit's obvious, and in fact they shouldn't be fined, they should be detained, because those people may as well be going out on the street and shooting someone with a gun.

The trouble is, the exponential increase in deaths is going to come from people who we don't even know if they're infected (and neither do they), because they are still being moronic and congregating, and travelling unnecessarily, and leaving their germs on things, and spreading the virus.

It's not enough for the government to "get tough" on people already tested and shown to be infected. They are the minority but they are not the central issue.

Boris Johnson seemed surprised when one interviewer yesterday asked if we needed to start using the police. It was like he took a metaphorical step back in surprise and replied "The police?" in a surprised tone.

Yes. The police. Say a pub or restaurant or arcade is still open. They should instantly close it.

Even then, if it makes the difference between 50,000 and 300,000 people dying... some form of deeper lock down is worth it. We're on a bad trajectory. I don't think it's time to dither.

Also, why are hospital staff STILL reporting shortages of protective masks etc, when the full brunt of the crisis hasn't even started? And why are we still not testing enough people (the answers clear - we don't have enough tests and test analysis capacity)... did we not initiate contingency action right from the outset?

So I'm a little impatient with the 'herd-immunity' morphed into 'softly softly advice' approach, when we need a strong approach now, if only to buy the NHS more time, but especially, to save lives.

 

[Richard K]

...because surely ignoring the advice and being selfish is Anti-Social Behaviour.

Certainly is, although as the ASBO legislation wasn't drawn up with this kind of situation in mind the statutory definition of "anti-social behaviour" may not be ideal. It says:

"“anti-social behaviour” means behaviour by a person which causes or is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more other persons not of the same household as the person"​

Common sense tells us that this is wide enough to cover unnecessary congregation of people less than 2m apart, but a lot depends on whether the definition covers not only cases of direct harm but also where the harm is indirect.

Perhaps there's already an answer to that one (I just don't know), but if indirect harm is covered then the authorities should be using these powers now.

 

[Siusaidh]

And since I'm on a roll with the rants...

I am royally pissed off with all the people deciding to de-camp to the Highlands or Wales - very likely adding to the load on the smaller-scaled health care systems in place in those less populated areas.

I have relatives in the Highlands - it would be easy for me to go and stay with them. But the last thing I want is for people to go swanning up there in campervans, or sort of going there for a 3 month holiday, and bringing infection with them (infection rates presently lower there).

Same with Wales. Did you see the lines of cars in Snowdonia this weekend.

I favour travel passes and road checks into these isolated regions. And I say that as someone who loves wild camping, and bothies, and the wild places. Now is not the time. If you're sick, stay indoors. If you're not, then maybe consider how you can help in your local community.

But don't run away somewhere, where at this time, you're really not wanted.

 

[websaway]

I'm worried in case the government just targets people WITH the virus who don't self-isolate. That bit's obvious, and in fact they shouldn't be fined, they should be detained, because those people may as well be going out on the street and shooting someone with a gun.

The trouble is, the exponential increase in deaths is going to come from people who we don't even know if they're infected (and neither do they), because they are still being moronic and congregating, and travelling unnecessarily, and leaving their germs on things, and spreading the virus.

It's not enough for the government to "get tough" on people already tested and shown to be infected. They are the minority but they are not the central issue.

Boris Johnson seemed surprised when one interviewer yesterday asked if we needed to start using the police. It was like he took a metaphorical step back in surprise and replied "The police?" in a surprised tone.

Yes. The police. Say a pub or restaurant or arcade is still open. They should instantly close it.

Even then, if it makes the difference between 50,000 and 300,000 people dying... some form of deeper lock down is worth it. We're on a bad trajectory. I don't think it's time to dither.

Also, why are hospital staff STILL reporting shortages of protective masks etc, when the full brunt of the crisis hasn't even started? And why are we still not testing enough people (the answers clear - we don't have enough tests and test analysis capacity)... did we not initiate contingency action right from the outset?

So I'm a little impatient with the 'herd-immunity' morphed into 'softly softly advice' approach, when we need a strong approach now, if only to buy the NHS more time, but especially, to save lives.

I don't think Johnson will fall into the trap of being hard on freedom. The extreme left who object to stop and search would be loaded with ammunition for the future. He's got a huge majority, the support of the nation and is doing it properly.

 

[dee]

Police already had that authority to suspend a license for up to 24 hours, there is no new authority there. There are also ASBO dispersal options that could be implemented now, without the need for any new authority, because surely ignoring the advice and being selfish is Anti-Social Behaviour.

Makes sense. I guess they just made a point of letting them know theyd be getting a visit and potentially losing license so to pack it in.

 

[super-whois]

Common sense tells us that this is wide enough to cover unnecessary congregation of people less than 2m apart, but a lot depends on whether the definition covers not only cases of direct harm but also where the harm is indirect.

I don't think it's difficult to prove that it would cause "alarm or distress" in the current pandemic.

 

[Siusaidh]

Personally, I think we are in a war.

I actually think Boris Johnson has the chance to be a good figurehead (even if I don't share all his political views), because he has quite natural communication skills. However, at this time he needs to be a statesman, and I think he would be wise to front up with people from other political parties, on things where they have consensus together - sort of government of national unity of a kind. I actually suspect that the Labour Party would agree with the need for tight action and controls on movement if that becomes necessary - in which case, if only for future political reasons, get them on board to take a share of those decisions. The Scottish National Party are frankly ahead of him on wanting tighter restrictions.

As we are possibly approaching more severe restrictions, I think statesmanship becomes really important, and simple political survival instincts should make him consider a front of unity on some of these key decisions, including offering a podium alongside him, to make some of these announcements.

It would send a really good message of unity in crisis, and add imperative and authority to harsher measures he may need to bring in (and possibly should have brought in already).

 

[Alan Fletcher]

A friend of mine that's in the Police has told me that they have been briefed on a planned lockdown, there are nationwide meetings going on right now with regional Police forces across the country and the Armed forces as to how they will roll out each stage of it. They are hanging on until the 11th hour and peak infection rate as they are worried that they will only be able to enforce this for 3 or 4 weeks before they will see a surge in people breaking it, and they won't be able to hold back the tide so it's not complacency, it's factoring in how stupid a lot of the public are. It will land, the day we hit that marker. It's a back to the wall/ Rourke's Drift situation, no plan B, as if they don't do this - they expect 60% infection as a minimum. People shouldn't panic, as it will work - just stay in, wash hands, look after the elderly, etc. x

 

[websaway]

Have to remember the Tottenham riots and the minorities who wanted to tear down the Churchill statues. The left and the anarchists will be waiting in the wings. We do need to remember the people who were out yesterday were not drug pushers or knife wielding thugs, they were mostly law abiding citizens who need to be educated to the damage they may do.

 

[Richard K]

We do need to remember the people who were out yesterday were not drug pushers or knife wielding thugs, they were mostly law abiding citizens who need to be educated to the damage they may do.

How much more education could they possibly need? This information is all over the place now. It's impossible to avoid.

I despair.

 

[websaway]

Personally, I think we are in a war.

I actually think Boris Johnson has the chance to be a good figurehead (even if I don't share all his political views), because he has quite natural communication skills. However, at this time he needs to be a statesman, and I think he would be wise to front up with people from other political parties, on things where they have consensus together - sort of government of national unity of a kind. I actually suspect that the Labour Party would agree with the need for tight action and controls on movement if that becomes necessary - in which case, if only for future political reasons, get them on board to take a share of those decisions. The Scottish National Party are frankly ahead of him on wanting tighter restrictions.

As we are possibly approaching more severe restrictions, I think statesmanship becomes really important, and simple political survival instincts should make him consider a front of unity on some of these key decisions, including offering a podium alongside him, to make some of these announcements.

It would send a really good message of unity in crisis, and add imperative and authority to harsher measures he may need to bring in (and possibly should have brought in already).

The government don't need to offer anything to scot nats or a Marxist led party for support to enforce whatever he wants. He has a huge majority and experts at his side. There was a general election and the people spoke now we have the power to defeat this challenge, and we will. Softly softly does it if you can follow with a big stick.

 

[websaway]

How much more education could they possibly need? This information is all over the place now. It's impossible to avoid.

I despair.

Not sure, a lot of these people might read todays papers and even listen to their children and older relations and maybe see common sense. I do think the big stick does need to be kept in site but I would not give ammunition to minorities to create an agenda.