Killing the market from within?

[julian]

This was probably obvious months ago. I wonder if certain sellers relentlessly flooding AD & DL with 'good' names (e.g. LLL's and one worders etc) has actually ruined the market and lowered prices for themselves and everyone else.

There's no magic anymore.

I can't understand what the desperate need is to keep selling stock so rapidly, especially given the bad timing and relatively low prices achieved.

 

[Retired_Member38]

I don't think any seller here owes any other seller anything so you should all do what you feel is best for yourself, if thats lowering prices for everyone else thats too bad.

I can see why a lot of sellers here are dumping stock though. Good to great domains will hold their value... mediocre to average ones won't. If I was holding dozens or hundreds of these domains I'd be looking to get rid too, and to hell with the long term market damage :lol:

 

[julian]

take the recession away, emd death and the dodgy ngtld launch - what has really changed since the glory days of mid 2000?

 

[Murray]

Have you bought any of these good names for lowered prices?

 

[Brassneck]

Hardly anybody on the forum or on DL is an end-user so all this indicates to me is that the reseller market is at an all time low. I don't see how this really impacts on end-user prices.

I'm really pleased I sold off all my better names 'cheap' several years ago when I could. Never saw the point of holding out for big money and unless things change dramatically at some point even those with excellent portfolios are going to need to cash in to some extent.

 

[Skinner]

The death of the EMD advantage means many people have a deficit, easy income gone and last I checked man gots to eat. We see this all the time, people are selling the family silver (LLLs and Singles) to keep ticking over. Its business, you sell your assets, pay your bills, or you go belly up, which we have also seen long standing tags suddenly drop everything and vanish.

I don't see how what 1 man is selling for, affects next man ?

If we was selling the same thing, like we were all selling Peppa Pig Teddys, then you have to be are or competition but domain names are unique items. Its not like a peppa pig toy where if they don't like my price they can go down the road and buy it elsewhere.

 

[julian]

From looking at this forum over the last year its clear from where I'm standing that what people are selling for must be affecting to some degree the next mans sale.

You hit the nail on the head in that people are having to shift their domains at firesale prices or these trendy 'frank style' auctions. Is the reason the market has lost confidence or stability due to the ongoing glut which could be a factor in plunging prices.

btw, I'm not criticising anyone for selling domains just trying to determine what is going on for the long term, because some domains are not EMDs (like oneworders), lll's etc so that can't be the reason for consistant low sales price factor. 5 years ago I'm sure the above type domains would have gone for 3x+ what they go for now (with or without emd being about).

The death of the EMD advantage means many people have a deficit, easy income gone and last I checked man gots to eat. We see this all the time, people are selling the family silver (LLLs and Singles) to keep ticking over. Its business, you sell your assets, pay your bills, or you go belly up, which we have also seen long standing tags suddenly drop everything and vanish.

I don't see how what 1 man is selling for, affects next man ?

If we was selling the same thing, like we were all selling Peppa Pig Teddys, then you have to be are or competition but domain names are unique items. Its not like a peppa pig toy where if they don't like my price they can go down the road and buy it elsewhere.

 

[martin-s]

I've totally re-evaluated my criteria for domains in the last 6 months.

In between now and 04/01, I think I have a total of two catches set up.

I see lists of recent catches posted on here and it's rare that I'd even have bothered to try registering names at even the cost of a fiver.

It'll be interesting to see how many .co.uk domains in total are registered at the end of 2015.

 

[Skinner]

It maybe affecting the reseller market, but I just see this as a buyers market right now. So it maybe affecting the next (reseller) mans price but on the whole its just the cottage is down sizing.

When I mentioned the EMD Advantage I wasn't referring to this affecting LLLs, I meant many people had PBN's and thin aff sites pouring the cash in, and they used this cash to amass names. Now this easy income has faded away (I'm down high xxx - low x,xxx per month because of this), so they are having to sell what they amassed/saved i.e. the family silver.

LLLs have long been held as "silver standard" currency, so makes sense they flood the market when money is low which supply and demand says prices fall with it. Once the silver is gone, next they have to sell the gold and precious stones aka the primes and single words.

This is compounded by the same half dozen people having found a glitch / code tweak, meaning they are taking the lions share and everyone else is suffering without fas easy income.

Its a double down on the income.

 

[markb]

This was probably obvious months ago. I wonder if certain sellers relentlessly flooding AD & DL with 'good' names (e.g. LLL's and one worders etc) has actually ruined the market and lowered prices for themselves and everyone else.

There's no magic anymore.

I can't understand what the desperate need is to keep selling stock so rapidly, especially given the bad timing and relatively low prices achieved.

I can't see any really good domains on here going cheap, please point me in the direction of a few and I may buy them. I've seen many one word names advertised in the premium section, but they don't seem to be selling that fast so I presume that they must be overpriced in the current market.

 

[mat]

 

[julian]

Sounds like I'm repeating myself over: what's changed to lower confidence so much (please someone don't say emd) since 5 years ago or perhaps its the same change that occurred between 2000 and 2005 or 2005 and 2010 - maybe someone tell me who was here in 2000?

Anyone understand the relevance of the picture in the previous post? Nope, thought not.

Julian: "...certain sellers relentlessly flooding AD & DL with 'good' names (e.g. LLL's and one worders etc)..."

Care to name names and cite examples? The main person that springs to my mind is Bluerock but he's been doing that since the day the first direct.uk consultation was published, I believe (I could be wrong). I haven't asked him why though.

"...There's no magic anymore..."

What exactly was this magic before?

"...I can't understand what the desperate need is to keep selling stock so rapidly, especially given the bad timing and relatively low prices achieved..."

Have you thought of directly asking the "certain sellers" you haven't named?

I'd love if it in one of your random posts you actually provided some basis for your claims or beliefs. It might not take long if you searched the forum to see what was actually occurring back in December 2005-2008.



(from iPad - K)

 

[Brassneck]

Sounds like I'm repeating myself over: what's changed to lower confidence so much (please someone don't say emd) since 5 years ago or perhaps its the same change that occurred between 2000 and 2005 or 2005 and 2010 - maybe someone tell me who was here in 2000?

I wonder whether in the past there were really many more end user sales than there are today. I think the problem is the reseller market.

I think many were fooled by the ease at which it was possible to flip domains on the reseller market - partly because it was easy to build and monetise networks of sites on keyword domains (sorry Julian to mention that), and partly because people thought that values of all domains were bound to increase over time. Sadly, Google ended the former and in reality for the latter I don't really think that UK businesses are that interested in acquiring an amazing keyword domain. Without an increase in end user sales there is simply no incentive for domainers to reinvest money outside of prime domains.

Over the years, the numbers of domains I sold to end users remained fairly static. It is the number to resellers and affiliate marketers etc that has fallen by a massive percentage (maybe 99%).

I remember a time when after catching certain domains you would receive emails from other domainers with solid 3 figure offers for domains which are most likely free to reg now.

I also think that what was considered to be a prime domain formerly is somewhat different to today. As other threads on here have suggested, domains with keywords suggest as insurance, hotels, etc are just too difficult to rank. Whereas Londonhotels.co.uk could easily have once been worth £5k, today it might only be worth a few hundred.

A bit rambling, but hopefully some of the above makes sense!

 

[julian]

Sorry old chap, I didn't mean to dampen your xmas spirits with my constant doom and gloom rants

So your saying you think there is no difference in the market in the last 18 months than 5 years ago. I'm looking at www.domainprices.co.uk, 2007, ordered high to low, and I'm wondering maybe you are right and if one stuck these here or on DL (tried to choose non emd types):

Designer.co.uk sold £76,000
StockCharts.co.uk sold £30,000
sites.co.uk sold £25,000
Models.co.uk - £100k via AD 2010
scratchcards.org.uk - £12k (emd I know, the days!)

do you think the above prices be achieved today (your going to say there all end user prices )

..then I looked at 2012/2013 sales so emd out of the closet now, and still quite high sales prices which is promising.

btw, I'm not trying to be negative or anything with this post - just exploring thoughts - perhaps DL has influenced the market by making sales more transparent and better value for end users rather via sedo.

First things first, have you examples of real transactions that demonstrate lowering of confidence when compared to similar transactions from the past?

Secondly I cannot speak for anyone else. Please name the people you feel have lost confidence and consider asking them and then see what they come back with. Maybe it's all just your perception?

Maybe in part you are to blame for perceived loss in confidence because of your almost weekly doom and gloom posts.

Acorn Domain names is a product, as is Domainlore. The operators of the products can, to some extent, influence the direction of both. I could write an essay about this forum, probably criticising all and sundry including myself, but any overall blame for a drab forum lies with those in control of it. No doubt a drab forum will have an effect if it is perceived as a major representation of a market. Domainlore didn't exist in 2005.

(from LG G3)

 

[ian]

Don't know about dumping stock, but I've always taken a position of flip 'em quick, which explains some of the recent sales. Ultimately that allows me to make a tidy profit, whilst ensuring some profit left on the table for the next domain caretaker; this helps retain stability in value, though certainly not at the levels once seen in this industry.

 

[DaveP]

I see no value in holding .UK domains long term, so a quick flip is the best way to make money out of them imo.

I don't think we'll ever see those kind of prices in .uk ever again. I really can't imagine designer.co.uk getting anywhere £76,000 now. Scratchcards.org.uk would most likely struggle to get £50!

Dave

 

[cm1975]

From my experiences, I'd say AD has picked up in the last 4 or 5 months (post .UK release), when compared to the previous 18 months. Conversely, end user sales have decreased.

Having said that I remember not so long ago being able to sell org.uk and me.uk domains on here. There wasn't big money in them for me, but you could always find and flip them.

 

[paymatters]

Domain catchers are probably happy to turn a quick decent profit?

 

[Murray]

I see no value in holding .UK domains long term, so a quick flip is the best way to make money out of them imo.

You and I both know that is 100% not true at all

 

[ian]

"...flip 'em quick..." = you possibly needed the money asap?

You seem to be hung up on those selling domains needing the money, but this certainly is not the case for me, far from it, but owing to the fact I'm 'late' to this industry, I see flipping domains to be the best way of profiting in a time scale that suits me, though I have a longer view on a few of them, some of which are now in the hands of end-users. I'm sure some need to open up funds for a multitude of reasons, but I doubt it is the case for most, just maybe a different approach to your own!