Lies, more lies and deceit from an Acorn member

[mojoco]

I was in the process of researching businesses to carry out some telesales / telemarketing when I saw a post by an Acorn member on 20th of October. The guys post was offering a service that on the face of it was suitable.

I contacted the guy, agreed a deal, paid my money.

What I got in return for my money was a steam of lies and deceit.

Lies that are hard to believe anybody would stupid enough to try to get away with.

I'm on the way out now, but will provide facts over the weekend.

 

[Sam]

Hi Mo

Sorry to hear what happened so who is this person more details please..

I was in the process of researching businesses to carry out some telesales / telemarketing when I saw a post by an Acorn member on 20th of October. The guys post was offering a service that on the face of it was suitable.

I contacted the guy, agreed a deal, paid my money.

What I got in return for my money was a steam of lies and deceit.

Lies that are hard to believe anybody would stupid enough to try to get away with.

I'm on the way out now, but will provide facts over the weekend.

 

[Murray]

Hi Mo

Sorry to hear what happened so who is this person more details please..

Probably relates to this

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/servi...-advice-call-center-call-hosting-clients.html

 

[Sam]

Probably relates to this

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/servi...-advice-call-center-call-hosting-clients.html

So best to stay away from gen4bizltd would like to hear what happened mo.

 

[Adam H]

Had a couple of telesales people take the money and run myself, one particular had rave reviews on the platforms which i found him. Was a small down payment of £50 but still ive yet to find a reliable one that can convert.

The guy that ran off with the money was someone called : Telesale Experts 4U ... <[email protected]>

Just incase any of you ever have the displeasure of speaking to him, even had the cheek to add me on Linkedin ( even though i dont use it ) a month or so after he's done a runner.

My fault really as i paid by bank transfer, he was a sole trader on People per hour.......Good Telesales people dont hang around on cheap freelance sites.

 

[namealot]

Probably relates to this

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/servi...-advice-call-center-call-hosting-clients.html

Maybe he forgot who he was today I’d guess his other identity on here confuses him ?

http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/domain-name-registrars/116135-discount-domains-uk-ltd.html

 

[mojoco]

OK, something I want to mention first. The biggest mistake I made was I ignored my gut feeling. The reason I ignored my gut feeling ? Guess it was down to my own greed, the package offered was too cheap if the guy was credible. Because the deal was a cheap option I didn't do any due diligence, which was very careless of me. Ive been around long enough to know better.

A reminder to myself and everyone else...DONT IGNORE YOUR GUT FEELING...it is usually right.

 

[accelerator]

OK, something I want to mention first. The biggest mistake I made was I ignored my gut feeling. The reason I ignored my gut feeling ? Guess it was down to my own greed, the package offered was too cheap if the guy was credible. Because the deal was a cheap option I didn't do any due diligence, which was very careless of me. Ive been around long enough to know better.

A reminder to myself and everyone else...DONT IGNORE YOUR GUT FEELING...it is usually right.

I'm sorry to hear you have been ripped off, there are lots of unscrupulous people out there unfortunately.

Gut feeling is rather important, plus I think there are a lot of procedures you can adopt to make sure you don't get ripped off again, so put it down to experience and uprate your procedures. Use a scoring system to rate people and use multiple factors to build up a picture, e.g. LinkedIn profile, website, check WHOIS etc etc, then implement your own check routine, e.g. have a list of questions to ask people over the phone etc etc. Build up a picture and you decrease your chances of being ripped off. Also, design a written contract and agree a payment structure that gives you more protection. If people start grumbling about what you're asking, then it's an early sign they're time wasters and you can just walk away and save yourself the bother and loss.

Rgds

 

[domainseller200]

I'm sorry to hear you have been ripped off, there are lots of unscrupulous people out there unfortunately.

Gut feeling is rather important, plus I think there are a lot of procedures you can adopt to make sure you don't get ripped off again, so put it down to experience and uprate your procedures. Use a scoring system to rate people and use multiple factors to build up a picture, e.g. LinkedIn profile, website, check WHOIS etc etc, then implement your own check routine, e.g. have a list of questions to ask people over the phone etc etc. Build up a picture and you decrease your chances of being ripped off. Also, design a written contract and agree a payment structure that gives you more protection. If people start grumbling about what you're asking, then it's an early sign they're time wasters and you can just walk away and save yourself the bother and loss.

Rgds

Excellent advice from a clearly seasoned pro you should write a blog post and post it on Twitter as loads could benefit from that sound advice (if you are on Twitter of course)

 

[Brassneck]

I've been ripped off by at least two people on Acorn, one for several thousand pounds and one who still posts on here. Would never reveal who they are but they were both people I had worked with for several years. At the end of the day it is part and parcel of doing business I think, and best to assume that you are always going to lose 1 or 2 per cent of your income in any given year to people who just don't pay or deliver.

Stephen.

 

[domainseller200]

I've been ripped off by at least two people on Acorn, one for several thousand pounds and one who still posts on here. Would never reveal who they are but they were both people I had worked with for several years. At the end of the day it is part and parcel of doing business I think, and best to assume that you are always going to lose 1 or 2 per cent of your income in any given year to people who just don't pay or deliver.

Stephen.

Why would you never reveal who they are ? surely you should want to warn others incase they fall victim to them ?

Being ripped off should never be written off as part and parcel of doing business, and if you choose to protect people like that then you are actually aiding them to rip off other people in future too.

 

[Brassneck]

Why would you never reveal who they are ? surely you should want to warn others incase they fall victim to them ?

Being ripped off should never be written off as part and parcel of doing business, and if you choose to protect people like that then you are actually aiding them to rip off other people in future too.

So in the thousands of people you have dealt with you have never had a non-payer? Where have you shared your list of them?

Personally I find it easier just to move on - it's not that I don't need the money but after numerous emails, telephone calls and false promises it is just easier to put it to one side and get on with something more constructive.

Most times people have posted about disreputable business practices there has fairly quickly been a legal (or other kinds of threats) to the forum which admin then has to deal with.

 

[domainseller200]

So in the thousands of people you have dealt with you have never had a non-payer? Where have you shared your list of them?

There is a big difference between a non-payer and someone who has ripped someone off. I have had non-payers but not people who have ripped me off - if I had, I would have posted it publically just like Mo has done with this thread to warn others of them.

 

[Brassneck]

There is a big difference between a non-payer and someone who has ripped someone off. I have had non-payers but not people who have ripped me off - if I had, I would have posted it publically just like Mo has done with this thread to warn others of them.

I don't see the difference. Many non-payers obviously knew they couldn't pay but still ordered services. Likewise people take your money and don't deliver. Maybe they over-extended themselves or got into financial difficulty so had hoped for the best when doing a deal but to me that could be considered as ripping somebody off. I suspect people buying gift cards for Christmas and then finding the store goes into administration shortly after Christmas would consider that a rip off.

 

[mojoco]

I contacted the guy by PM, moved onto email and then phone.

This was all on Monday 20th october.

He was easy to get hold of on the phone, took all my calls or called back promptly.

When we reached an agreement I received a service agreement and invoice by email almost immediately.

The invoice was plus vat, but without a vat number. Alarm bell went off at this stage, and I should have paused and done some due diligence but didn't, I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt. I asked for a replacement invoice with a vat number, which I received soon after.

"Please see as requested, official invoice (footer inc) sorry about that ...

"If there is any way you could transfer that today you would help me a great deal as I can't really book the diary unless paid"

More alarm bells went off with him asking for immediate payment, again I ignored them !

I couldn't access online banking but told him I would go to the branch next day being Tuesday 21st, and make the payment which I did. That was around midday. I emailed him at 13.44 to advise invoice had been paid. Had a brief exchange of emails, last one I received was at 14.09.

At 14.21 I emailed to say can we have a call before the end of the day to clear up any loose ends. The telesales are due to start work tomorrow Wednesday 22nd.

Then the saga began...no reply to email. Tried calling no answer.

17.30 I received a text saying

"Hi, I will call you in an hour or so if OK I was at a funeral today so left early"

No phone call, tried calling at around 7pm no answer

19.09 "Sorry Maurice still at the wake"

Up until now I had not even looked at the guys website, what an idiot I am. It looks like a pile of shite and none of the phone numbers are live. Had I only checked this simple thing I would not have got myself into this position. It wasn't a lot of money, and he'd soon be generating revenue from telesales. Thats most likely how I'd allowed myself to be so careless. Now that he has my money I have little choice but to give him a chance, although my confidence in him had all but disappeared.

Wednesday morning. Spoke on the phone, he had a hangover. Asked about the phone numbers and was given a load of waffle. Agreed to let him clear his head and talk again in a while. By this point I'm fully aware that I'm dealing with a prick and will have little if any chance of getting any value for money.

14.45 text: "Sorry got called out, back soon. Today won't count as an invoiced day, i.e. free. On phones from 9:00 as its been a bit hectic here with the guys wrapping up a trial"

Thursday. He's not answering the phone, I sent text at 10:50 asking him to contact me ASAP

10:50 "Will do I'm stuck in traffic but the guys have started, do they need to stop?" Told him to stop the guys until we have spoken.

"OK sorry give me an hour please and yo have me 100%"

No more contact that day, doesn't take my calls.

Friday, no reply to calls. Sent him a text late at 16.53 requesting a call

Got a very long text reply saying he will call shortly, and that he had a big project postponed and tried to pitch me a new proposal in the text.

Spoke on the phone some time soon after, declined his proposal. Why would I want to do anything further after such an appalling start ? Was assured that events this week had been an exception due to various personal circumstances, but Monday morning he will hit the ground running at 10am.

More to follow....I'm saving the best for last.

 

[accelerator]

I would also say that telesales call centre services are a higher risk industry in terms of the potential to be ripped off. It sounds as though you have a system for evaluating potential partners, but for some reason you skipped it this time??

I think if I was going to contract a call centre, I would go and visit it and see what the staff were like (but not my thing really).

Rgds

 

[domainseller200]

I don't see the difference. Many non-payers obviously knew they couldn't pay but still ordered services. Likewise people take your money and don't deliver.

We are talking about two different things now :

- You are talking about providing services which aren't paid for (ripped off)

- I am talking about someone who agrees to buy something eg a domain name but then backs out of the agreement (eg a non payer)

If you have been ripped off by someone who has used your services, which you have delivered and they haven't paid AND are still active on this forum, then I feel you have a duty to warn others about it - even more so as you are a moderator !

I suspect people buying gift cards for Christmas and then finding the store goes into administration shortly after Christmas would consider that a rip off.

Of course that is a rip off, but there is no way to warn others about it as people only find out after that happens - the difference is with your situation, is that you are able to warn others about it BEFORE they are ripped off but are choosing not to.

 

[Murray]

A reminder to myself and everyone else...DONT IGNORE YOUR GUT FEELING...it is usually right.

I got ripped off in the last few weeks, I currently have a case open with the police via action fraud

I don't want to go in to too much detail but it was pretty much the same as you in some respects, it was a fair amount of money, low x,xxx, but for what I was supposed to be getting it was a fantastic deal

^ That's a good con mans trick I think, to get you to focus on how much you're saving rather than how much you're spending.

I offered to pay by paypal and cover fees, they said no of course, but for some reason I ignored that , so I paid by bacs which was the worst possible way since the bank can't do anything

So I wont see my money again and I doubt the police are going to do much

But I had to try and look on the bright side that at least I could afford to lose the money and it's not worth my time/health to let it stress me out

Still very annoying the first week of course, was thinking about it a lot and getting angry, but since then its got better and I feel relaxed about it now.

~ Should say this was a personal buy btw nothing to do with business or acorn

 

[Brassneck]

If you have been ripped off by someone who has used your services, which you have delivered and they haven't paid AND are still active on this forum, then I feel you have a duty to warn others about it - even more so as you are a moderator !

Ok - you win - I should be ashamed.

 

[Murray]

I guess, like most things, there must be good dominatrixes and bad dominatrixes.

You know there are people out there who enjoy financial domination and having their bank accounts rinsed, "money slaves" something like that.

Unfortunately I'm not one of them and was annoyed rather than pleasured by losing the money :-|