20i Reseller Hosting

Nominet selling sub-domains policy

Discussion in 'General Board' started by twostepsbehind, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. twostepsbehind United Kingdom

    twostepsbehind Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Likes Received:
    12
    Hello,

    Would anybody be shed some light on how Nominet view subdomains and selling domains as a business/franchise?

    Is it allowed? Frowned upon? Can they take down the business overnight?

    Thanks
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    May 2013
    Posts:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    210
    I would have thought you can do what you like surely with the proviso you're the owner, so anything dodgy on a subdomain would come back to you.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Adam H

    Adam H Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    May 2014
    Posts:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    215
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. armistice United Kingdom

    armistice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2009
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    29
    From the policy documents: https://www.nominet.uk/uk-domains/policies/policies-rules/ Rules of Registration

    7. SLD registrations (NOTE RESERVATION RIGHTS APPLY TO CERTAIN HOLDERS OF THIRD LEVEL REGISTRATIONS UNTIL 10 JUNE 2019)
    In order to register a new Domain Name as a SLD within .uk, the following requirements apply:
    • Any person may register a SLD within .uk
    • The sale of third level registrations to unrelated third parties is not permitted

    So subdomain sales are not permitted for *******.uk , cant find a mention of this in .co.uk
    Wonder if you could argue that a franchisee is not an unrelated third party
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. twostepsbehind United Kingdom

    twostepsbehind Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Likes Received:
    12
    What if there is no sale of the third level at all to the franchisee? But instead selling rights to only publish content on it, no other rights to develop or change use, etc...?
     
  7. armistice United Kingdom

    armistice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2009
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    29
    Thats fine, You can do what you want with subdomains just not sell them to third parties (because thats what Nominet do ;))
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    May 2013
    Posts:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    210
    So couldn't you just charge for time taken to put the content of your choosing on subdomain ?
     
  9. super-whois United Kingdom

    super-whois Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2008
    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    4
    This is most likely unenforceable and unlawful, as Nominet are preventing competition.
     
  10. Domaintial United Kingdom

    Domaintial Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2015
    Posts:
    253
    Likes Received:
    24
    In this context Nominet will argue that they aren't preventing competition. They are "safeguarding" an asset that is critical to UK interests (ie the .uk tld).

    Its also *VERY* easy for them to enforce, in the same way that domains distributing harmful/illegal material can be suspended.

    I own a fair few short domains and have often thought about setting up a sub-domain service on one. Each time I look into it, my conclusion is that its just not worth the risk to the underlying domain.

    All of the above depends on what your intention is though... I could foresee less objection with a noip/dyndns type service on something like *.mylan.uk vs something on *.gb.uk etc...

    My above example was going to be on *.network.uk... but net.uk... widely unused!?
     
  11. Domaintial United Kingdom

    Domaintial Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2015
    Posts:
    253
    Likes Received:
    24
    In the doc @Adam H linked, this may shed some light on a way forward... dependant on the scale though I guess.

    "SLDs administered by third-party registrars as trustees"
     
  12. armistice United Kingdom

    armistice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2009
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    29
    .net.uk widely unused because

    12. Specific rules for the .net.uk SLD
    12.1 Introduction These are the specific rules for the .net.uk SLD, administered directly by us. They form part of and, in the case of conflict, take precedence over the Rules.
    12.2 Requirements on Applicants
    12.2.1. This SLD is reserved for the computers of network providers, that is the network information centre (NIC) and network operation centre (NOC) computers, the administrative computers, and the network node computers.
    12.2.2. Registrants in the .net.uk SLD are required to be Internet Service Providers. Notwithstanding the Rules, no Domain Name shall be registered in this SLD unless, in our reasonable opinion, the applicant is an Internet Service Provider and the Domain Name registered is the same as or a similar variant of the applicant's name.

    12.2.3. Without prejudice to any other test that we may apply, the applicant shall only be deemed to be an Internet Service Provider if:
    12.2.3.1 the applicant is either: • a company listed on the Register of Companies at Companies House in Great Britain under the Companies Act 1985 as amended from time to time or on the Register of Companies at the Northern Ireland Companies Registry under the Companies (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 as amended from time to time; or • a partnership as defined by the Partnership Act 1890, Limited Liability Partnerships Act 2000 or a sole trader; or • a United Kingdom government department, local government body, or associated government funded organisation; or • a recognised academic institution geographically located in the United Kingdom; or • a Charity on the Register of Charities at the Charity Commission in the United Kingdom;
    12.2.3.2 AND the applicant either: • is listed as a local internet protocol (IP) address registry with a regional IP address registry; or • has an Autonomous System containing hosts in the United Kingdom that is listed with a regional IP address registry and that is • continuously or at all reasonable times reachable from major Internet exchange points.
    12.2.4 Any Domain Name registered in .net.uk may only be used in the manner set out in this Clause, and we may suspend or cancel the registration if we believe it is not being so used, in accordance with the termination provisions set out in our terms and conditions.
    12.2.5 The Domain Name must not be used in connection with any service provided by the registrant on behalf of any other entity. For example, the Domain Name must not be used as part of another entity's e-mail address or URL.
     
  13. Domaintial United Kingdom

    Domaintial Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2015
    Posts:
    253
    Likes Received:
    24
    Yip - I know what .net.uk is for, as we have one (run our own ASN) :)

    I know of lots of other smaller ISPs that either 1. don't know its even a thing they can get, and/or 2. (more likely) don't care to have one, as they want their .com or (.co).uk :)
     
  14. armistice United Kingdom

    armistice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2009
    Posts:
    283
    Likes Received:
    29
    ah, I thought the question mark on the end meant you were questioning why its so unused :oops:
     
  15. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    284
    If not subdomains, some of the .uks may have value as vanity email addresses

    Maybe something like coys.uk for Spurs fans

    I have no idea of costs etc of running something like this or how many email addresses would need to be sold to make it profitable
     
  16. twostepsbehind United Kingdom

    twostepsbehind Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Likes Received:
    12
    What constitutes a "sale" of a third level registrations?

    Is selling the rights to publish content (within contractual boundaries) and do nothing else on there a "sale" of the third level? Perhaps someone on here with legal knowledge on this...?
     
  17. twostepsbehind United Kingdom

    twostepsbehind Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Likes Received:
    12
    I've decided to press ahead with a franchise model, in summary:

    - Franchisee will get a website on a subdomain, but they will have no rights over the subdomain as the subdomain is not being sold to them

    - Franchisee will be paying for territory rights of the subdomain website and will be able to post content to the website and sell advertising space - but not have access to the website proper or change branding or anything else like that

    - Franchisee will not be able to move to a new domain name and operate from there

    In short, all the franchisee will really get is only two rights to the website: where they can post content and sell advertising space for - nothing else

    Will this be ok in Nominet's eyes?

    The other thing I'm concerned about is the franchisee being able to make money by selling ad space, but not owning anything other than the rights to sell ad space for their chosen territory - is this how franchises usually work? I can't think of the common franchises where franchisees actually own good will in the branding value of business
     
  18. Domaintial United Kingdom

    Domaintial Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2015
    Posts:
    253
    Likes Received:
    24
    Realistically, the only people qualified to give any meaningful or binding answer to this question is Nominet themselves...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 2015
    Posts:
    313
    Likes Received:
    63
    Sounds like an incredibly risky thing to do to the domain if it doesn't pay off (resale) - is there really a market in 2019 for this type of service?
     
  20. stitchbob

    stitchbob Active Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2019
    Posts:
    209
    Likes Received:
    29
    My thinking is that it really depends exactly how much control you're giving the client. For example:

    * A geographical site selling an upgraded listing page as mycompany.town.uk, which is clearly still a part of your main site, would be fine.
    * Allowing the client to upload their own content to your web space would *probably* be fine, but is a little more risky
    * Allowing the client to set nameservers for their subdomain and giving them full control over everything under it would be naughty.
     
  21. twostepsbehind United Kingdom

    twostepsbehind Active Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 2014
    Posts:
    139
    Likes Received:
    12
    Hi,

    Franchisees would never get full access to the website - only access to submit posts (Wordpress) - they won't own the website - only rights to submit posts and sell ad space for a revenue share

    Franchisees will create value by developing relationships with local businesses and that will be their goodwill

    I'm not going to promise them the world and the target market will be part-timers/stay at home mums/someone looking for a side project

    Their projected earnings expectations will be very realistic from day one - I don't envisage anybody earning enough to replace a full time wage

    Not promising the world to anybody

    Is their a market for this? I have a unique .uk asset that I believe can make this work, no other .uk domain can make this work - or very few

    It would be rude not to...:)