Second level .uk poll.

[foz]

On the back of Nominet's announcement do you support the opening up of the second level in the .uk name space? e.g. yourdomain.uk

.uk discussion thread.

 

[Edwin]

Surely the 167 posts in the thread discussing this issue, many of which go into great detail about specific aspects of the proposal to open up the .uk namespace, show that it's a complex subject that's literally impossible to reduce to a yes/no question! Too many nuances, too many shades of grey.

As such, I don't understand what this poll is expected to tell anyone. A 1 second click on "yes" or "no" contributes nothing at all to the issue or to potentially resolving any problems with the proposal.

 

[Systreg]

Maybe admin/mods could move this poll to that other topic so it reflects on the current discussions all in one place?

 

[foz]

As such, I don't understand what this poll is expected to tell anyone.

As to whether it is favoured or not. It should be the very first question to ask.

If it is opened up, the details and process to apply will be worked through.

 

[Edwin]

As to whether it is favoured or not. It should be the very first question to ask.

If it is opened up, the details and process to apply will be worked through.

I understand your intent, but that's putting the cart before the horse!

People may be completely in favour of it if it's opened up in a certain way, and dead against it if it's opened up in a different way.

Without the vital context of the HOW it's impossible for anyone to give a meaningful response to the poll.

Two examples to illustrate:
1) if .co.uk owners were GIVEN the matching .uk domain name free of charge, I'd bet you'd see a 90%+ swing in favour of "yes".
2) if existing domain ownership conferred zero rights to .uk regardless of domain extension, length of ownership or current use or lack of use, and all domains not handed over to TM holders were auctioned off, I'd bet you'd see a MASSIVE swing in favour of "no".

In other words, your question comes too soon: the time for a "yes"/"no" is once there is a FIRM proposal on the table i.e. post-consultation.

 

[foz]

Two examples to illustrate:
1) if .co.uk owners were GIVEN the matching .uk domain name free of charge, I'd bet you'd see a 90%+ swing in favour of "yes".
2) if existing domain ownership conferred zero rights to .uk regardless of domain extension, length of ownership or current use or lack of use, and all domains not handed over to TM holders were auctioned off, I'd bet you'd see a MASSIVE swing in favour of "no".

I disagree, its because of these huge variants that I believe it is of no real benefit to ANYONE in the .uk space to open it up.

 

[Rob_F]

As it stands at the moment, I'm completely against it – so have voted no.

I agree with Edwin though, my stance can't be answered with a simple yes or no answer. In principle, I would be for it but a lot would need to change, including .co.uk registrants getting first refusal, followed by other .uk extensions, followed by TM holders. Pricing and the need for DNSSEC/TrustMark (on a compulsory basis) in this day and age are also things that I would like to see looked at again.

- Rob

 

[Bailey]

This vote outcome can be predicted. (so not really a go imo)

domainers and devlopers = NO

Late arrivals to domains = Yes

 

[Maccke]

I'm positive to the steps Nominet take to launch .UK in general. It seems like most current owners of the .CO.UK are going to have a good chance getting the .UK domain IF they want to. Get used to a better and more international recognizable domain extension with more type-ins

 

[foz]

domain extension with more type-ins

Any evidence of this? With .co.uk being so entrench the logic would be the other way around?

 

[arkvard]

I think it's almost certain to go ahead and I think a lot of business owners are going to be happy as they will be able to pick up a domain they have always wanted but couldn't afford.

Also good for new domainers that missed the boat 1st time round as they now get the chance to build a decent portfolio instead of the FTR stuff most people don't want!

 

[foz]

I think it's almost certain to go ahead and I think a lot of business owners are going to be happy as they will be able to pick up a domain they have always wanted but couldn't afford.

Competing applicants will have fight it out in an auction. So it won't be cheap. Assume the £20 fee as an ongoing cost only, not the price to secure.

 

[Edwin]

I think it's almost certain to go ahead and I think a lot of business owners are going to be happy as they will be able to pick up a domain they have always wanted but couldn't afford.

Also good for new domainers that missed the boat 1st time round as they now get the chance to build a decent portfolio instead of the FTR stuff most people don't want!

Unlikely. If anything at all decent is left after the trademark holders and other extension holders have had their pick, I'm guessing it will get registered within a few fractions of a second of the .uk extension going on "general release". Registrars are likely to take pre-bookings (just as they've done in the past for other new cctld and gtld launches) and fight it out to get the scraps - or pick stuff up in-house for themselves.

This is the trend that has played out time and time again when new namespaces have been opened up that have caught the imagination of domainers. By the time business owners wake up to the fact that the .uk extension has been unlocked, all the interesting names will have gone. Especially since, unlike the launch of debatable extensions such as .co, .mobi, .eu and so on, there is clear value in .uk!

 

[arkvard]

Competing applicants will have fight it out in an auction. So it won't be cheap. Assume the £20 fee as an ongoing cost only, not the price to secure.

True Foz, but with so many domains coming into the market and lots that don't even know is happening there is bound to be tons of bargains for just £20.

 

[arkvard]

Unlikely. If anything at all decent is left after the trademark holders and other extension holders have had their pick, I'm guessing it will get registered within a few fractions of a second of the .uk extension going on "general release". Registrars are likely to take pre-bookings (just as they've done in the past for other new cctld and gtld launches) and fight it out to get the scraps - or pick stuff up in-house for themselves.

This is the trend that has played out time and time again when new namespaces have been opened up that have caught the imagination of domainers. By the time business owners wake up to the fact that the .uk extension has been unlocked, all the interesting names will have gone. Especially since, unlike the launch of debatable extensions such as .co, .mobi, .eu and so on, there is clear value in .uk!

Edwin, just out of curiosity are you prepared to backorder 6,500 domains?

 

[Edwin]

True Foz, but with so many domains coming into the market and lots that don't even know is happening there is bound to be tons of bargains for just £20.

If you believe that, you should read up on what happened when extensions like .eu were launched. In .eu's case, 700,000 domains were registered in the first 4 hours - and that was for an extension with far less overt value than .uk (the nay-sayers have, by and large, turned out to be correct as far as .eu goes, but that's a parallel discussion). This isn't people registering one domain here and one domain here, this is vacuuming up done on an industrial scale, tens of thousands of names at a time!

And, once you get away from the obviously valuable names, i.e. if it's a toss-up whether a .co.uk domain is worth registering (total outlay £3+VAT for 1 year) it will be 6x more so for a domain costing £20/year.

 

[Edwin]

Edwin, just out of curiosity are you prepared to backorder 6,500 domains?

Haven't decided yet. If .co.uk holders end up getting the opportunity at the matching .uk, then certainly we would pick up A LOT and perhaps do a bit of overall portfolio cleaning at the same time.

 

[arkvard]

Haven't decided yet. If .co.uk holders end up getting the opportunity at the matching .uk, then certainly we would pick up A LOT and perhaps do a bit of overall portfolio cleaning at the same time.

Does it not look like though, by Nominet FAQs that owners of the .co.uk version will not get priority unless they can provide evidence of use with which if you are a domain trader parking domains etc so to speak a domain is not in theory being used properly as it is providing no use to a searcher other than to sell the domain for a profit?

One Q&A from the FAQs of the Nominet electronic form:

"Q Why wouldn't you just let everyone with a .co.uk have automatic rights to the .uk?

A The proposals we have outlined acknowledge that existing registrants with domain names registered in the third level may have an unregistered right provided evidence of use could be shown prior to a qualifying date. We also believe that it is appropriate to recognise trademark holders as having prior rights to registering a domain, followed by those with unregistered rights. Our current rules provide that a registrant does not have any rights in any words within a .uk domain, and that Nominet does not authorise registrants to use the domain name as part of a business. However, as part of the registered rights phase of sunrise, we would generally accept evidence of use as a valid unregistered right. We believe this approach fits with a digital economy where innovation and intellectual property are championed and to supporting existing registrants who might want to take up such a new service."

 

[Edwin]

Does it not look like though, by Nominet FAQs that owners of the .co.uk version will not get priority unless they can provide evidence of use with which if you are a domain trader parking domains etc so to speak a domain is not in theory being used properly as it is providing no use to a searcher other than to sell the domain for a profit?

Yes, possibly under the CURRENT version of the proposal. However, given that the DRS Policy explicitly incorporates the following "Trading in domain names for profit, and holding a large portfolio of domain names, are of themselves lawful activities", I believe that a strong case can/will be made to include domain portfolio holders in this "evidence of use" clause since they are already using their domains "properly" under Nominet's own rules.

In any case, the whole proposal is highly unlikely to end up being implemented verbatim once this consultation process has run its course. Historically, Nominet has shown itself quite willing to assimilate feedback and modify procedures, so there's no reason to expect that won't be the case now. And that's why it's so important to give the right feedback into the process.

 

[retired_member34]

Haven't decided yet. If .co.uk holders end up getting the opportunity at the matching .uk, then certainly we would pick up A LOT and perhaps do a bit of overall portfolio cleaning at the same time.

I'm curious Edwin, how does the proposed £20 annual fee affect your business model? I assume you either need to dramatically improve your sales rate, or dramatically increase your end prices (which may of course decrease your sales rate, depending upon domains' price elasticity).

I only ask as you have been very forthright regarding your model before, by all means tell me to mind my own business.