20i Domains

So, who caught the best 'THL'?

Discussion in 'Drop Lists' started by anthony, Jul 2, 2014.

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  1. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    Most of the drops I've been watching have shown the .co.uk catcher also getting the .uk. But with today's drop of THL.co.uk, different catchers got lucky.

    The question is, what do people think was the best catch as a result, the .uk or the .co.uk?
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    The answer depends on whether the aim is a quick sale, or a hold-and-sale.

    If a quick sale (timeframe: next few days, weeks or months) then probably the .co.uk

    If a long term hold for the right end user buyer then probably the .uk
     
  4. arkvard

    arkvard Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    Another 3 letter just gone to different catchers.
     
  5. DaveP United States

    DaveP Well-Known Member

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    EnterFirst are doing well last few days.. congrats.
     
  6. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    Getting very messy with the split on domains. Still think catching the .co.uk is for the best at the moment.
     
  7. grantw United Kingdom

    grantw Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. Nominet are all about growth these days, nothing else.

    I thought the new gtld 'threat' was just a poor exaggerated reason to push .uk through, but reading the board communique today, Nominet really do appear to believe that they're in direct competition with these bag of crap extensions that are going nowhere! Embarrassing!

    Grant
     
  8. Sound United Kingdom

    Sound Well-Known Member

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    The real winners from the launch of .uk is Nominet and now the clock is ticking and in five years this forum will be full of domainers complaining that they have the extra expense of registering all there .uk domains in their portfolios .

    People may think that the new GTLD domain are crap but they are not aimed at just the uk market less than 5% of the population own a domain and they will be around longer than most domainers.
     
  9. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    What of the future?

    Their is time to have the pricing structure changed before the 5 year deadline comes along, for lower price cost on .co.uk and .uk combined.

    If there is no pricing concession for joint ownership, I for one would be registering the .uk and letting the .co.uk drop on all low value domains, that are not set up as websites.
    As I believe .uk will win in the long-term.

    We will know better after Nominet sends out the 7,000,000 emails to those with a right to the .uk, if there is more take up and .uk usage.

    There will be major cyber squatting in 5 years of .uk domains on .co.uk websites, if the poor take .uk up and knowledge about .uk continues.
    But accept a lot can change in 5 years.
     
  10. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    But regardless of what happens, you can guarantee there will be a queue of domainers waiting to snap up .uk's in June 2019 ;)
     
  11. grantw United Kingdom

    grantw Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they will, along with .info, .biz, .mobi, .tel and every other new extension that was marketed to hell and went nowhere.

    Anyway, Nominet had better batten down the hatches, .Fish has been released this week, a sure-fire threat to the existence of all ccTLDs!!!

    [​IMG]

    Grant
     
  12. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Some of them will be the present days thirteen year old. Whether many of us are still as involved with domain names as we are at present remains to be seen.

    (from Note 3)
     
  13. cannybagotudor United Kingdom

    cannybagotudor Active Member

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    Let's be honest here, it's not the fact it's a dumb idea, it's the fact you will either have to pay double what you're paying now in 5 years or make a decision. Icann have been doing this for years, frankly I am shocked it took Nominet so long to click onto this revenue stream. I don't find domainers very helpful, some useful comments I've had are "there are plenty of other ways to make money sitting in front of a pc all day", as if I would be doing that. I have one domainer (not here, and is based elsewhere) who has been a great help, he's not scared of competition and realizes more people entering the market is natural, and indeed should be welcomed as it increases the awareness of the value of a good domain in the first place.

    The top tier of domainers won't be concerned about these changes, they have a great portfolio and a balance between domains purchased and sold, which is what the business is all about. A few may be able to hoard without selling any, not many.

    I actually doubt many non domainers have a clue about .uk until they go to register a domain and are faced with a decision. Nominet will not "phase out" .co.uk within 5 years you can be assured of that, the idea is laughable, I have never heard of a tld being phased out at all, the whole point of new tld's is to make more money from domain speculators because they will always go for the worded domains etc. Indeed, if Scotland vote for their independence what will a .co.uk or .uk be worth if Scotland creates it's own tld, which every country does.

    There is no doubt in 5 years it will be a bonanza I think some domainers will drop some good domains onone or other tld, some good names will become available through people not renewing etc then the status quo will resume once more. Serious domainers will have effectively doubled the cost of their portfolio, so I'm sure many will have a review of what they feel is worth registering on both tld's. Some will reg both in fear of one becoming more valuable than the other. There cannot be many here who are surprised Nominet is releasing new tld's. Anyway food for thought.
     
  14. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Sean, unfortunately it's probably too late to change things unless you and others that attempt to register domain names immediately after they have been deleted ("dropcatch") put together a well reasoned argument on paper and submit it to the Nominet board detailing why you think the present situation is bad for everyone and not just dropcatchers. Writing about it on here when it has already been discussed in detail in previous threads isn't the way forward. As has already been pointed out the problem only affects dropcatchers and domain names that dropcatchers will go after. Any other domain names that are deleted by the registry won't be contended for and ordinary registrants will likely be able to register one, the other or both using normal methods at retail registrars.

    It's also not a problem for existing registrants with portfolios of domain names or for new registrants of domain names that are taken over via accredited registrars without being deleted after expiration. I don't dropcatch at the moment so I don't personally care however I might change my mind one day if I decide to dropcatch again. The opportunity was there within the consultation period to suggest that the .uk 2LD was reserved for a short period of time post deletion of the *.uk 3LD that held the right to register it. Nobody seemed to be too bothered to make a case for it, possibly because the most vocal were more concerned with protecting their existing portfolios.

    Your options are to live with it, quit drop catching or get together and write a paper about why things should be changed. Otherwise it is how it is. :)
     
  15. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    David has explained why there will be very little fragmentation for the vast majority of end users (they will either be able to register both names or, except for the rare recently drop caught exception, they will be dealing with a single party able to supply both .co.uk and .uk forms) and I completely agree with his assessment.

    It is pretty much a non issue (rounding error vs 10,000,000 domains) for anyone other than drop catchers. As another recent thread suggested, around 130 names are being caught a day so that's an absolute maximum of 130 new "split" pairs a day - in practice the number will be a lot lower than that because many catchers manage to get both. Again, a rounding error vs 10,000,000+ names.
     
  16. fuzzer United Kingdom

    fuzzer Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    So all dropcatchers really want is for newly registered '.co.uks' to come with the right to the equivalent .uk. Surely simple to make happen and a benefit to all?

    Maybe nominet will miss out on the dropcaught .co.uks not immediatly having the .uk registered (probably only in the tens per day?)

    but what they lose there - they will make up for with the stability of end-users trusting the market and not having to negotiate multiple deals to secure a brand name.
     
  17. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    I understand that and obviously I respect your opinion. Initially this only affects dropcatchers because they will be the registrants registering the desirable domain names that are deleted by the registry. As we now know it is absolutely possible for different drop catcher registrants to register the matching *.uk 3LD (usually the .co.uk) and .uk 2LD.

    This will have different effects. It might force the price down of both. It might force drop catcher registrants to collude and do deals/swaps/agree not to sell their domain name unless the other drop catcher registrant sells theirs with it. It might force end user registrants to seek alternative domain names, where the pair are registered by a single registrant. It might force end user registrants to pick one domain name to develop and attempt to acquire the other later. It might cause the domain name not chosen by the first end user registrant to lose value because nobody else will want it for much. It might allow different registrants to purchase similar domain names with different extensions and develop them differently.

    It will likely be all of the above and that will depend on individual domain names and individual end user registrants. There certainly won't be just one outcome.

    If you want to try to change it I've explained how you and others might like to begin trying.

    (from Note 3)
     
  18. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    Sean, my point was not about whether .uk introduces confusion or not, it's that the issue of .co.uk and .uk landing at two different places with two different domain sellers is a non-issue for anyone other than current drop catchers and the names they catch from now on.

    If a seller has both the .uk and the .co.uk (which will be true in over 99% of cases for a very long time) then the only "risk" is to the buyer's wallet. There's no confusion issue since the buyer can use either domain (their choice) and redirect the other one to it - they're in the driving seat on if/when to move to .uk assuming that they paid for both names.

    And if they're unwilling to buy both, well that's an entirely artificial problem brought about by the buyer's short-sightedness.
     
  19. fuzzer United Kingdom

    fuzzer Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    but that would take away the option of consumers buying a tried and tested extension and force them to use an extension that the general public aren't familiar with yet - therefore putting them on a par with all the other new ones.

    no need to lose that advantage just yet... simplest solution - just give new .co.uks (regardless of whether the .org.uk etc. is registered) the right to the .uk too.

    -nominet lose £50 a day from catchers
    -but public perception is a lot less confusing
     
  20. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    Let's stop painting this "problem" as something it isn't!

    Public perception is completely unaffected by the maximum 130 domains/day that potentially end up "unpaired". The chance of any member of the public coming across one of them is vanishingly small, like finding a needle in a stack of haystacks. Reminds me of the "millions may die" scaremongering headlines that seem to get rolled out every other day around every "danger" known to man, yet inevitably turn out to be laughably overblown.

    On the other hand, the chance of it affecting a current dropcatcher is very high indeed - it is therefore, for all intents and purposes, purely a dropcatcher problem.

    That's why David was saying you need to find a different angle (a real one, not a made up "threat" where no such threat exists) if you want to have any chance at all, however small, of shaping the debate.
     
  21. Edwin

    Edwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it makes a very clear statement: ".co.uk is a second class citizen, only .uk is worth having". How else will people interpret a gradual removal of .co.uk names from the marketplace? Damaging to .co.uk owners, damaging to Nominet's credibility, damaging to Nominet's current and future business. Completely unworkable.
     
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