.UK Announced

[martin-s]

We're all entitled to our own opinions - the crucial thing is to respond to the consultation with them. (Yes, in my opinion!)

 

[websaway]

We're all entitled to our own opinions - the crucial thing is to respond to the consultation with them. (Yes, in my opinion!)

Is it possible for you to say why you think they are not selling the uk commercial webspace for a second time ?

Not whether they are allowed to or if they are right or wrong.

 

[Reddy]

What would people think if say Companies House decided to start offering additional company registrations - along side the current Ltd. and Plc. ones?

For arguments sake, let's call these new ones - 'L.' registrations - for example someone could register a company called Nominet L. (in addition to the current Nominet Ltd. company registration). After all, it produces a shorter, neater company name and those two less characters will save a lot of typing (not to mention less ink and toner) on letters, contracts etc.

L. company registrations would cost about eight times more than registering a Ltd. company, but in return there would be some additional security features/vetting, so people would come to trust L. companies more. In time, as more L. companies become established, Ltd. companies would be seen as less secure, less trustworthy and less popular.

As most 'good' Ltd. company names have already been registered, by offering L. company names, Companies House would be making millions of new company names available under L. for 'anyone' to register.

Trademark holders would be given first option on their equivalent L. company name - even if the trademark is registered overseas, say in the US, Australia or numerous other countiries where reciprocal arrangements exist. Any remaining L. registrations will then be offered to existing Ltd. company registrants, then finally to the general public on a first come, first served basis.

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario...

A thriving house removal firm which has been trading for many years under their registered company name - AnyCo Ltd.

When Companies House originally put forward a consultation for the new shorter, more secure company name, the directors of AnyCo Ltd. thought it was a great idea and supported it. However, when the L. company registrations were released, AnyCo Ltd. wasn't given first refusal on AnyCo L. - that option went to an overseas company who happens to have a registered trademark for 'AnyCo' under let's say the class of 'Scented Candles'. AnyCo Ltd. doesn't have a trademark for 'AnyCo' having never needed one.

Having secured the company name AnyCo L., the overseas company offered to sell the registration to AnyCo Ltd. for an extorbitant fee, but AnyCo Ltd. just could not afford this so had to decline.

The owner of AnyCo L. then set up its own removal company under the name AnyCo L. Customers were confused - some contacted AnyCo L., thinking they were contacting AnyCo Ltd., resulting in some loss of business. But in time, the confusion diminished as the public started to trust as L. companies more and more. AnyCo L. thrived on the previous goodwill of AnyCo Ltd., whilst the directors of AnyCo Ltd. were forced to close their business.

I realise that comparing Companies House and Nominet is not ideal, but it is the closest analogy I could think of. In my view .uk is totally unnecessary and the tiny benefits (shorter url/huge profits for Nominet) is completely outweighed by the many, many disadvantages.

David

 

[martin-s]

Reddy - as far as I am aware CH has legislation which prevents the same name across different extensions. (Happy to be corrected if this is wrong)

If only life were so simple when it comes to domain names.

websaway - with respect, I've read every post on this thread and a whole lot more besides. I've also taken 6 weeks to consider the proposals and reach my conclusion. The answer to your question is simply that I don't care whether the commercial domain space is being sold twice or not - it is irrelevant to my stance.

But I respect your right to disagree with me

 

[Reddy]

Reddy - as far as I am aware CH has legislation which prevents the same name across different extensions. (Happy to be corrected if this is wrong)

It was meant as an analogy. You are saying CH couldn't do something like this, but it's very similar to what Nominet are proposing to do.

Maybe legislation should prevent Nominet from offering the direct .uk name if the same .co.uk or .org.uk name is already registered. But then, Nominet wouldn't stand to make a shed load of money from direct.uk if they were.

David

 

[martin-s]

My point David was that .co.uk vs .org.uk vs .me.uk already exists - you can't shut the stable door once the horse has bolted..

 

[Reddy]

My point David was that .co.uk vs .org.uk vs .me.uk already exists - you can't shut the stable door once the horse has bolted..

But .co.uk, org.uk and me.uk are the same (i.e. 2nd level domains of .uk). Direct .uk is totally different because it is the top level domain. If Nominet wanted to introduce another SLD, e.g. safe.uk, there wouldn't be the same opposition to it.

David

 

[Sound]

The only people who don't seem to like what Nominet is proposing with the launch of .uk are some domainers on this forum. I think you would struggle to find me one link on a business forum which has the negative vibe found on here.

If any of the facts and figures quoted by some members were true the media would have been all over them like a rash and it would have been headline news the simple fact is its scaremongering and a none event in the business community.

I am looking forward to people predictions for 2013 when someone starts the thread this year.

 

[grantw]

I am looking forward to people predictions for 2013 when someone starts the thread this year.

My 2013 prediction - Many of those business forum members start giving off major negative vibes when they realise that someone has taken their matching .uk domain because they weren't entitled to it themselves. They just assumed they'd get it and didn't bother reading the manual! Some appear on here asking what they can do and get pointed to this bible of a thread and told to hang their heads in shame

Grant

 

[retired_member27]

That's of course if we get past tomorrow 12-12-12 or should that be 21-12-12.

 

[Stephen]

What will happen?

Indeed it did Stephen, but you're right that the questions asked weren't the only ones worth answering..

Edit: and to be specific, I suggested that ownership of that domain with another extension should be considered a pre-existing right. However, I did also suggest that domain investors should not be given priority over businesses with legitimate existing use (as part of the adjudication procedure).

Thank you, so in fact you did not answer the question what is a "prior right", in your Nominet response, as it was not posed as a question.

That is my point and we are on the same side as far as Nominet should consult more before proceeding either way with such a
flawed proceses were the questions themselves are loaded on such an important topic.

I understand your point and before the UK namespace is destroyed perhaps we should ask Nominet
to do a study or whatever process that will show how many thousands of .co.uk domains that are required
by genuine businesses in the Uk before we create a situation where several hundered thousand .co.uk owners
with online businesses will not end up with the .uk equivalent
for a variety of reasons.

If you believe it is unfair now with .co.uk , it will be 100x worse with .uk

 

[monaghan]

The only people who don't seem to like what Nominet is proposing with the launch of .uk are some domainers on this forum. I think you would struggle to find me one link on a business forum which has the negative vibe found on here.

If any of the facts and figures quoted by some members were true the media would have been all over them like a rash and it would have been headline news the simple fact is its scaremongering and a none event in the business community.

I am looking forward to people predictions for 2013 when someone starts the thread this year.

There are very few domainers complaining that their business will be impacted, of course many will be, however, having been "in the business" of domains for many years, there are many here with extensive experience of how these things work. To be completely honest, I have no sympathy for someone with a large portfolio that becomes worthless as that's part of the informed risk a domainer will take (any investor takes a risk and domains are no different), however, I am concerned over the lack of knowledge that the small businessman has on the subject of domains, much of the small business arena depend on so called "experts" and there have already been a number of comments about people preparing their plans for getting .uk names, so where will this leave the man in the street who has read the Nominet proposal and is looking forward to getting his nice shiny direct.uk let alone the business that is dependant on their mate in the pub for their web site guidance? How many people have had a small business ex-domain owner call them asking why their web site now has a different site on it after it has dropped and been re-developed?

If we must have a .uk, lets at least get Nominet to be honest about how it will pan out based on past behaviour of these "nasty domainers" buying up all the real-estate (as they do with other new TLD's)

 

[Edwin]

The only people who don't seem to like what Nominet is proposing with the launch of .uk are some domainers on this forum. I think you would struggle to find me one link on a business forum which has the negative vibe found on here.

If any of the facts and figures quoted by some members were true the media would have been all over them like a rash and it would have been headline news the simple fact is its scaremongering and a none event in the business community.

I don't know why this old chestnut has to be dragged up again every 10 pages or so on this thread.

Businesses aren't raising a fuss because by and large they remain 100% oblivious to the issue.

Those that do miraculously become aware (e.g. during the Nominet face-to-face consultations, in comments to news articles etc.) and take the time to REALLY understand ALL the ramifications (a tiny subset) are, I'd say, at least 90% opposed to .uk.

You're dreaming if you think the mainstream media will pick up on this issue without being prompted again and again and again and again. The length of this thread and the confusion evidenced in it even on what is basically an "industry insider" board shows that this is an issue that simply can't be grasped in a few moments - there's unfortunately no "elevator pitch" that can be made to explain it.

And without that, it won't tickle the braincells of mainstream journalists who are shovelling away relentlessly trying to fill an endless news void (the amount of content newspapers and magazines have to generate is an order of magnitude greater these days now that they all blog, tweet, etc. as well as publish in print and online)

Add to that the absolutely first-rate job Nominet's PR machine has done of burying the main issues under an avalanche of spurious "benefits" and there's practically zero chance of anyone mainstream noticing the elephant in the room...

... which is why it's so vital for everyone to keep plugging away again and again (for example, it was a retweet of one of my hundreds of tweets that led to the eConsultancy writer contacting me and putting together his excellent piece - I neither knew of nor could never have predicted the web of connections in between him and me that first drew his attention)

http://econsultancy.com/jp/jump/lon...et-s-uk-proposal-a-tax-on-the-digital-economy

 

[Stephen]

Why is it only domainers?

The only people who don't seem to like what Nominet is proposing with the launch of .uk are some domainers on this forum. I think you would struggle to find me one link on a business forum which has the negative vibe found on here.

If any of the facts and figures quoted by some members were true the media would have been all over them like a rash and it would have been headline news the simple fact is its scaremongering and a none event in the business community.

I am looking forward to people predictions for 2013 when someone starts the thread this year.

It is impossible to find one business link that states that .uk launch is the greatest thing for the UK economy and we all going to be so secure on the internet thanks to Nominet's bold vision. All news stories apart from first few were they were simply the press release from Nominet with no real comment or investigation are critical of the proposal (although .uk is always going to be more appealing - so it should get some good press!).

See Edwins list of media coverage http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/articles.html

The really bad media and wider coverage will only come when Nominet move from consultation to what will actually happen. Whilst it is hypothetical the media have lots of other stories but some have started to gather background in case it becomes a real interest story.

I believe it is only domainers debating the issues as it is only domainers know about it and care about how domains will develop. There is some self-interest but there is a genuine sense of injustice to those people who will be effected that simply don't understand the consequences.

A pure domain investor would be able to benefit from the information on this thread whether they have 25 or 25,000 UK domains in a .uk launch.
But many still choose to not back .uk or introduce it only with some major rework to the Nominet proposal.

I would like to see Nominet stating that there will be another phase of wider consultation whatever they decide.

 

[Sound]

I work in the media and they are always hungry for any news story let alone one that you say is going to cost business billions of pounds and change the face of the digital world

There are many threads on business forums mostly started be domainers trying to bring attention to there cause. all I have seen have been meet with the same lukewarm response by business people who understand the true facts.

The domain community is made up of many hundreds of people and yet only a handful have entered into any dialogue on this forum let alone with Nominet tells you everything you need to know.

 

[monaghan]

I work in the media and they are always hungry for any news story let alone one that you say is going to cost business billions of pounds and change the face of the digital world

Have you been writing articles for your media outlets promoting direct.uk then? I've seen very little in the press, good or bad. Nominet have published their information, Edwin, Stephen and others have already posted many public documents that the press could easily use and twist into a fantastic anti government story or an anti domainer story, but nothing is published positive, negative or neutral - with your media hat on - given the big change (whatever your personal slant) why is this not in the news?

There are many threads on business forums mostly started be domainers trying to bring attention to there cause. all I have seen have been meet with the same lukewarm response by business people who understand the true facts.

Given your exposure to domaining, do you honestly think there are going to be hundreds of thousands of happy businesses come the introduction of direct.uk?

The domain community is made up of many hundreds of people and yet only a handful have entered into any dialogue on this forum let alone with Nominet tells you everything you need to know.

There are some of us who see further than the next sale, given that Nominet are choosing not to publish anything sent to them on the consultation, why do you assume those silent on the forum have not given feedback? Is it compulsory to post a "Feedback Sent" message just as people insist on posting a "PM Sent" message when they reply by PM?

 

[Stephen]

Not all Domainers know!

I work in the media and they are always hungry for any news story let alone one that you say is going to cost business billions of pounds and change the face of the digital world

There are many threads on business forums mostly started be domainers trying to bring attention to there cause. all I have seen have been meet with the same lukewarm response by business people who understand the true facts.

The domain community is made up of many hundreds of people and yet only a handful have entered into any dialogue on this forum let alone with Nominet tells you everything you need to know.

Where are the media stories saying Nominet .uk proposal is the greatest thing ever for the UK internet?

Do you think .uk will be the biggest change in the UK internet since it started?
If so why have the media not picked up on it - good or bad?

Despite this being the longest thread on Acorn and most times having the highest viewing figures per the home page numbers,
not all domainers on this forum are even aware of the Nominet .uk proposal.

Nominet itself did not send an email to all UK registrars advising about the .uk proposal only the few that
subscribe to nom-update received anything.

I sent an email to somebody who has spend £250,000 on .co.uk domains and works them hard as businesses last week
with a copy of "What is wrong with the Nominet .uk proposal?" link and they were horrified what was going on.
Considering that we are entering the final stages of the consultation it is very sad not more people are made aware of it.

 

[websaway]

Relatively speaking not many people are bothered at the moment and most will not even complain until the horse has bolted and that's understandable because the situation is complicated and unless people are informed in a formal manner they don't think it relates to them. Nominet of course know this and it works to their advantage. Can you imagine if ordinary people were to have involved themselves with all the name changes over the last 10 years, it's a full time occupation.

But if a football club sold their football season ticket to someone else after they had paid in full for it they would not be pleased.
I suppose they could start looking at how the seat could be shared, maybe go for a first come first served, so if you got there first thing in the morning you would get to sit on your own seat, or maybe both arrive at the ground and have an auction for who can sit there and watch the match, with the proceeds of the auction going to the club on top of the two fees already paid, or even look to see if someone else has got prior rights, so they can just pop in and sit on the seat or just stop anybody sitting on the seat at all.

But I personally would argue that I bought the season ticket and it should not be sold to someone else.

 

[Sound]

Relatively speaking not many people are bothered at the moment and most will not even complain until the horse has bolted and that's understandable because the situation is complicated and unless people are informed in a formal manner they don't think it relates to them. Nominet of course know this and it works to their advantage. Can you imagine if ordinary people were to have involved themselves with all the name changes over the last 10 years, it's a full time occupation.

But if a football club sold their football season ticket to someone else after they had paid in full for it they would not be pleased.
I suppose they could start looking at how the seat could be shared, maybe go for a first come first served, so if you got there first thing in the morning you would get to sit on your own seat, or maybe both arrive at the ground and have an auction for who can sit there and watch the match, with the proceeds of the auction going to the club on top of the two fees already paid, or even look to see if someone else has got prior rights, so they can just pop in and sit on the seat or just stop anybody sitting on the seat at all.

But I personally would argue that I bought the season ticket and it should not be sold to someone else.

The new tld .uk can sit quite happily alongside .co.uk as it has worked for other countries like Japan stop scaremongering and accept change.

 

[websaway]

The new tld .uk can sit quite happily alongside .co.uk as it has worked for other countries like Japan stop scaremongering and accept change.

Yes I see exactly what your saying, like if the football club said what's the fuss can't you just accept the situation and sit on the other persons lap.

emmm NO! I didn't buy the season ticket with a view to sharing my seat with another. I can understand the other person not complaining because he didn't have the seat in the first place, anything is sometimes better than nothing.