.UK launch 'right to reserve'

[fuzzer]

Just seen this on the dotuklaunch website:

- After launch on 10 June 2014 any new registrations within the .uk family (e.g. in .co.uk, .org.uk etc) no longer get automatic rights to register the new .uk domain. So these new .uk domains become available for anyone to register.


Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I thought even after the launch date - the .co.uk would get the right. This quote makes it seem like they don't - therefore any dropping .co.uk may have catchers chasing both the .co.uk and the .uk - resulting in separate owners of each - am I right??

 

[Systreg]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I thought even after the launch date - the .co.uk would get the right.

Dropping .co.uk domains only retain the right to the .uk up to the launch date.

therefore any dropping .co.uk may have catchers chasing both the .co.uk and the .uk - resulting in separate owners of each - am I right??

Yes, that's correct, so catchers will decide to either load both or either after launch date, meaning there will be domains in .co.uk and .uk with different owners.

More info here: http://www.nominet.org.uk/uk-domain-...introducing-uk and here http://www.dotuklaunch.co.uk

 

[fuzzer]

cheers - but wow... i must have missed reading about all this

Just to add, I expect there will be many instances of .co.uk's dropping after the launch date, where people have gone through lists seeing what's going to drop, then regging the .uk way before the .co.uk drops, it'll be very interesting

how will they be able to register the .uk before the .co.uk even drops if the .co.uk holds the rights??

 

[Systreg]

how will they be able to register the .uk before the .co.uk even drops if the .co.uk holds the rights??

Your right, my mind was running away with itself, so ignore the "Just to add" bit in my previous post, I'll delete it

 

[Skinner]

Its not clear if the .uk will drop at the same time as the .co.uk, it could be that the .co.uk drops and at some point later that day or 7 days later the .uk drops.

All that is clear is, the .co.uk MUST drop first, otherwise the .co.uk owner could still renew.

 

[fuzzer]

systreg - phew

it'll make selling the separate names interesting - the different owners would have to guess the others price to stay competitive?? or even confer?


skinner - I just regged a ftr, then checked with the 'rights to uk' tool and was confused for about 10minutes as I had the .co.uk and it was still saying 'none' for the rights to .uk. took 10 minutes and some refreshing for it to update. I know its not the same thing - but I see your point - there will probably be a delay in the .uk coming available.

 

[Murray]

Are you guys sure you're right about this?

After launch on 10 June 2014 any new registrations within the .uk family (e.g. in .co.uk, .org.uk etc) no longer get automatic rights to register the new .uk domain. So these new .uk domains become available for anyone to register.

I can't find it on the nominet website now, but they said "new registrations" of co.uk (if org.uk etc was registered) wouldn't get the .UK after after 28th October.

But dropped and caught (reregistered) .co.uk domains have still kept the right to get the .UK

Unless there has been confirmation that they wont, might a dropped and reregistered co.uk hold the rights to the .UK?

Because again, the "new" is confusing, as dropped co.uk's now aren't currently being treated as new..

 

[fuzzer]

http://dotuklaunch.co.uk/dates-and-definitions

under 'right to reserve' - 2nd point.

would this also mean that if a .co.uk drops after 10th June - then the 'right' would pass on to the equivalent .org.uk etc?

 

[Murray]

http://dotuklaunch.co.uk/dates-and-definitions

under 'right to reserve' - 2nd point.

would this also mean that if a .co.uk drops after 10th June - then the 'right' would pass on to the equivalent .org.uk etc?

At the moment, unless someone can show me something different, my guess is a dropped and reregistered .co.uk will still hold the rights to get the .UK if it hasn't already been registered by the previous co.uk owner.

 

[Systreg]

@ Murray, as we know, if a .co.uk drops today and is caught, it retains the right to the .uk because it was the domain that had rights at the cut off point of point on Oct 28th 2013.

New refers to domains that have not been registered before, and were not registered in Nominets database at the time of the cut off point at 23:59:59pm Oct 28th 2013. As it's a NEW domain, it doesn't get automatic rights to the .uk domain.

If a new .co.uk is registered today, one that wasn't a drop and so wasn't registered in the Who-Is database at the above cut off point, then that domain will get the rights to the .uk, but only if no equivalent domain domain existed at the cut off point.

If another equivalent domain existed, which was registered at the cut off point, and if it isn't not renewed before the lauch date on Jun 10th 2014, then the new .co.uk will get the rights to register the .uk when the other domain drops or is cancelled up to launch date

I’ve already got a .co.uk and I registered it after the cut off date

If your .co.uk was registered after the cut off date, and there was no equivalent domain already existing within the .uk domain family at cut off (e.g. www.example.org.uk; www.example.me.uk etc), then the shorter and snappier www.example.uk will be automatically reserved especially for you for free until 07:59 on 10 June 2019.

If an existing equivalent domain, that was registered at the cut off, is not renewed (i.e. it expires or is cancelled) before 10 June 2014 then you will get the right to register the new .uk once this other domain is cancelled.

From: http://www.dotuklaunch.co.uk/couk#after

[edit]

To add, just for completeness, any .co.uk dropping after the launch date and being caught, has no right to the .uk, the same as any new previously unregistered .co.uk's being registered after the launch date, they also don't have any rights the the .uk

 

[Murray]

@ Murray

Basically though, dropped and reregistered co.uks totally ignored the first cut off date (as long as they were registered 28th October), why wont they ignore the second cut off date?

 

[diablo]

From Nominet's http://www.dotuklaunch.co.uk/dates-and-definitions

"New registrations of .co.uk domains made before 08:00hrs on 10 June 2014 (provided that no other equivalent .org.uk, .me.uk, .net.uk, ltd.uk or .plc.uk exists) will get the rights to the new .uk domain."

"After launch on 10 June 2014 any new registrations within the .uk family (e.g. in .co.uk, .org.uk etc) no longer get automatic rights to register the new .uk domain. So these new .uk domains become available for anyone to register."

A key point for me is this:

"Domains must be continuously registered to retain the rights to the new .uk."

A .co.uk that drops after 08:00 on 10 June 2014 won't have been continuously registered and so will not retain rights to .uk.

 

[Murray]

A key point for me is this:

"Domains must be continuously registered to retain the rights to the new .uk.".

Ah that is a good point.. I didn't see that, thanks.

But on the over hand, we know that sentence is wrong, or at least not in proper context.

Because domains do not have to be continuously registered at the moment to retain the right to the .UK (at least during this time window)

They could do with being more clear, or again maybe I'm not reading something.. but they should try and cater to people of my mental intellect & attention capabilities anyway

 

[Sam]

Yes that's correct so you wont have rights to the .UK

It's going to be a new game

A key point for me is this:

"Domains must be continuously registered to retain the rights to the new .uk."

A .co.uk that drops after 08:00 on 10 June 2014 won't have been continuously registered and so will not retain rights to .uk.

 

[ian]

This is quite bad! So for example, I'm monitoring a high profile domain I'm sure will drop at the end of the year. It has been registered since 199X. At the moment it has priority to the .uk, but are Nominet now saying that when the domain drops and is caught, it will no longer have right to the .uk??? That would be a HUGE problem for many catching a .co.uk only to have to battle once again to catch the .uk when presumably it is released for all a few hours/days/weeks later!

Surely this can't be right, surely it refers to new registrations after June that weren't registered prior?

 

[diablo]

Ah that is a good point.. I didn't see that, thanks.

But on the over hand, we know that sentence is wrong, or at least not in proper context.

Because domains do not have to be continuously registered at the moment to retain the right to the .UK (at least during this time window)

They could do with being more clear, or again maybe I'm not reading something.. but they should try and cater to people of my mental intellect & attention capabilities anyway

Key to your point is "at the moment", but my point refers to after the launch date only. So Nominet's statement is correct.

 

[Murray]

Key to your point is "at the moment", but my point refers to after the launch date only. So Nominet's statement is correct.

It says at the top

Cut off date is 23:59hrs on 28 October 2013

Then it says at the bottom

Domains must be continuously registered to retain the rights to the new .uk.

But we know that isn't true?

 

[diablo]

Here's what Nominet says:

"After the launch date, if the existing domain name (www.example.co.uk) is cancelled and deleted from the register, any right to the new .uk equivalent domain is lost and cannot be recovered. That includes .co.uk domains with rights."

My feeling is that once the launch date comes, the game changes.

A .co.uk that drops after the launch date hasn't been continously registered and therefore loses the rights to the .uk the moment it drops. At that point the .co.uk and the .uk will be available for anyone to register.

Whether it's a problem for catchers who want both is neither here nor there.

 

[stellar73]

It's certainly going to be interesting!

I guess there will be a lot more activity with people contacting end users (to try to secure a deal prior to drop) following the June cut off date.

I don't understand the technical side of drop catching but am curious to know if there will be any method by which .uk registrations can be automated to happen the millisecond after the co.uk drops - ie a twinned catching approach, or is this impossible?

Presumably even if it is possible it's still an open playing field? (ie two different catchers will more than likely end up with each registration and have to battle it out)

 

[tifosi]

It's certainly going to be interesting!

Yep.

I guess there will be a lot more activity with people contacting end users (to try to secure a deal prior to drop) following the June cut off date.

Not to mention the registrar transfer for accredited channel partners don't forget. But a big feature will be the 9.9m of pre-registered domains...

I don't understand the technical side of drop catching but am curious to know if there will be any method by which .uk registrations can be automated to happen the millisecond after the co.uk drops - ie a twinned catching approach, or is this impossible?

Unlikely, Nominet have never worked that way. They are pretty ambivalent about it. In reality the .uk for all current domains are 'available'. There will no doubt be a check in the epp registration process to check it's availability, but no 'twinning'.