Buyer not honouring installments after transfer, any advice?

[timter51]

I "sold" a domain in November for mid-high £xxxx. The buyer is a ltd company based in London, turnover in the high £xxx,xxx, a customer facing retail business with a full-on eCommerce website with busy social media channels. There are 2 directors, the one I negotiated with is an angel investor who is a director of 51 companies (and I assume wealthy). The other director is the business founder. They also had a very successful online crowd-funding drive a couple of years ago.

With all this in mind, and the fact that both the directors seemed very genuine, good guys, I agreed to payment in 3 monthly installments, and to transfer the domain on receipt of the first payment, which went fine. Since then, though, they have missed the 2nd payment which should have been end of Dec, the proposed 3rd installment date is days away, and I have not been able to make contact with either of them. Emails go unanswered, phone messages never returned, and if I do get hold of someone in the office, neither of them are ever available and all I can do is leave a message for them to call back.

At this moment, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume they had an extremely busy holiday season and are still settling down from that. But if the silence continues, I don't know what I can do now without resorting to legal threats, apart from go up to London and knock on doors! Wish I hadn't agreed to transfer the domain on 1st payment. Considering I have an email trail that shows the agreement in place, do I have any grounds if worst did come to worst and I have to take it further? Anyone else had something like this happen? Very depressing

 

[monaghan]

If someone wants to use a domain before payment is complete, suggest in future you just set the DNS servers so they can use the domain and then complete the transfer when the cash is in the bank.

As to how to recover, if the paperwork is sound, then write to them with a signed for delivery and request payment, you could also try the on-line money claim process. Alternatively hand it over to the legal profession.

 

[mally]

defo go via https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Not answering emails or returning calls is not acceptable

 

[donton]

I "sold" a domain in November for mid-high £xxxx. The buyer is a ltd company based in London, turnover in the high £xxx,xxx, a customer facing retail business with a full-on eCommerce website with busy social media channels. There are 2 directors, the one I negotiated with is an angel investor who is a director of 51 companies (and I assume wealthy). The other director is the business founder. They also had a very successful online crowd-funding drive a couple of years ago.

With all this in mind, and the fact that both the directors seemed very genuine, good guys, I agreed to payment in 3 monthly installments, and to transfer the domain on receipt of the first payment, which went fine. Since then, though, they have missed the 2nd payment which should have been end of Dec, the proposed 3rd installment date is days away, and I have not been able to make contact with either of them. Emails go unanswered, phone messages never returned, and if I do get hold of someone in the office, neither of them are ever available and all I can do is leave a message for them to call back.

At this moment, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume they had an extremely busy holiday season and are still settling down from that. But if the silence continues, I don't know what I can do now without resorting to legal threats, apart from go up to London and knock on doors! Wish I hadn't agreed to transfer the domain on 1st payment. Considering I have an email trail that shows the agreement in place, do I have any grounds if worst did come to worst and I have to take it further? Anyone else had something like this happen? Very depressing

The best bet is probably to talk to a local debt recovery company. I had a fairly big company run off with a large amount of content - they published it on their site and never paid. They ignored my emails, refused to take my calls, etc. for nearly three months.

In the end I went to a local debt recovery company and they told me to send a "Letter Before Action" via this company: http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/letter_before_action.aspx

It costs about £2.40 including VAT.

The next step was to issue proceedings against the company - but the second the LBA fell through their door, the invoice was settled in full.

It was a pretty nasty experience, but I managed to get the full amount outstanding - it only cost me a couple of quid to send that letter.

I'm not saying you should just go ahead and do the above - it's probably best to seek sound advice from a debt recovery company or solicitor first. I just wanted to point out it can be relatively straightforward and cheap to get what you're owed.

I hope you get the money without too much hassle!

 

[websaway]

what is the domain name ?

 

[timter51]

Thanks everyone for the great advice on this, certainly feel a lot better about it now then I have the last few weeks. I hope it doesn't come down to legal action, but it's nice to know the option is there and it's relatively straightforward to proceed.

Websaway - Not sure it'd be right for me to name and shame at this moment!

 

[tifosi]

I suppose some hindsight is to be expected, but in the past when I have sold a domain via instalments I have changed the nameservers only on the 1st payment and the transfer activated on the last. If payments aren't kept up (within reason for any missed ones) it's treated as a 'lease'. Registrant ownership is firmly mine until paid for fully.

 

[websaway]

don't quote this post, I will delete it in a few minutes

 

[Alien]

.......

This message will self-destruct in 1 minute.

Oooops, it already did.

 

[scooter]

They are sticking 2 fingers up at you.

Wait until the 3rd installment is due (if it is only days away). Then send an LBA recorded delivery giving them 7 days to pay outstanding debt in full.

After 7 days, pay your £35 and take them to court.

Once you have paid your £35 come back and name and shame. No-one wants to do business with non payers.




.

 

[philipp]

In the end I went to a local debt recovery company and they told me to send a "Letter Before Action" via this company: http://www.thomashiggins.com/pages/letter_before_action.aspx

It costs about £2.40 including VAT.

The next step was to issue proceedings against the company - but the second the LBA fell through their door, the invoice was settled in full.

I use Thomas Higgins, they are awesome. Usually the LBA will resolve a problem, failing that I have used both Moneyclaim and debt collection agencies with good results.

Good luck - and I would definitely advise anyone against doing a legal transfer before full payment has cleared.

P.

 

[philipp]

P.S. Don't get depressed or angry at them, it usually works best if you keep the emotion out of it. I'd suggest taking a printout of all the relevant email correspondence just in case they get lost or accidentally deleted somehow.

P.

 

[timter51]

A month later and after further promises and mentions of staggered payment, I haven't seen a further penny and have been met with more silence for the last 2 weeks. LBA sent out this morning, let's see what happens. It's so annoying, I like to think I'm a reasonable and nice guy and don't like getting into stuff like this, but what choice do you have? Bills to pay and mouths to feed.

 

[Retired_Member38]

You said they have busy social media accounts.... post messages on there asking them to pay you what they owe you. Keep it factual to avoid legal issues...

 

[bulkcorn]

Such deals should always include a domain recovery and/or payment(fixed or percentage) forfeiture clause.

Best bet is to change only DNS on such deals. They would have remembered they owed you money if you were in a position to pull the plug on their website.

 

[Retired_Member38]

bet is to change only DNS on such deals. They would have remembered they owed you money if you were in a position to pull the plug on their website.

Outside of using escrow (which is a pain in the butt for multi payment deals) someone is always going to have to 'go first'. If one side is a major company with a known angel investor and the other is a random bloke selling domains online... then its not unreasonable for it to be done the way the OP has done it. If he'd insisted on retaining the domain until it was paid, then the deal might not have taken place in the first place.

Personally I'd have been more concerned as to why a supposed big company needed/wanted to split the deal over a few months anyway - its just adding paperwork and hassle, why didn't they just complete it in one go? Are they not as big as you thought they were, and planning on either giving you the run around / using you effectively as an interest free loan / trying to renegotiate when you cry foul?

 

[timter51]

You said they have busy social media accounts.... post messages on there asking them to pay you what they owe you. Keep it factual to avoid legal issues...

It's been extremely hard to resist the temptation to take this onto their Facebook and Twitter accounts so far... I think I've got a better chance of them paying up in the 7 day LBA period if I stick to that policy!

Such deals should always include a domain recovery and/or payment(fixed or percentage) forfeiture clause.

Best bet is to change only DNS on such deals. They would have remembered they owed you money if you were in a position to pull the plug on their website.

Yeah lesson learned big time here, I don't plan on mucking around with installments in the future regardless of the DNS option.

 

[timter51]

Personally I'd have been more concerned as to why a supposed big company needed/wanted to split the deal over a few months anyway - its just adding paperwork and hassle, why didn't they just complete it in one go? Are they not as big as you thought they were, and planning on either giving you the run around / using you effectively as an interest free loan / trying to renegotiate when you cry foul?

Just over a month after I agreed the deal, I found out that the angel investment company involved were to be sold off by their parent company for "poor performance" in the last financial year. I then saw on the national news that the company I'm dealing with made a very large investment in equipment for a new product line at the end of last year. Both these set alarm bells ringing all too late... due diligence suggested they were good for it when I agreed the deal, due diligence right now looks grim (the company's current liabilities are £400k+ with little cash in the bank in the grand scheme of things). But not having enough cash isn't a good enough excuse (if that is the reason), they should have seen it coming.

 

[bulkcorn]

You can always recover the domain. The sale is not complete until the full amount of consideration agreed has been paid to you. Keep an eye on how the company is doing and get your claim in the courts before they go down. If it looks like they are not gonna have any money to pay off the balance, don't file a money only claim, so you can get the domain back if they cant afford to pay you what they owe.

 

[diablo]

The sale is not complete until the full amount of consideration agreed has been paid to you.

Only if a retention of title clause was included in the sales contract.