New domain expiry process and droplists for .uk

[JamesTuplin]

@webber so have you seen or heard anything on how Nominet are going to police it? They have obviously decided its going ahead the way they want it so surly they must have done the checks on WHEN not If people abuse it they know who is doing what?

And what will happen to the Multitags are caught? will the domains be taken back and re release or will it be you got it so you can keep it.

There is no deterrent to stop them. The 2L domains caught proves this point. They cheated but still own the domains. Where's the deterrent?

 

[Paullas]

Members have been ignored. As i said New Faces Old Nominet Ways. Nothing will change.

 

[Sam]

Members have been ignored. As i said New Faces Old Nominet Ways. Nothing will change.

Yes agree and having this so called committee has not helped the matters. How they approve this is ridiculous. It’s just another way to get rid of dropcatching

 

[webber]

I would also be interested to know if users with multiple TAGS will be restricted to just one of there TAGS having access to the EPP

Having restrictions will inevitably result in fake memberships/tags. Everyone is free to use as many tags as they want if they thing it will help. Nominet is convinced using multiple tags will not make a meaningful difference.

This is a joke won’t change anything and seems like your happy about it @webber this makes it much harder and I’m sure most people agree this won’t work !

I'm not "happy", there are a few of things the UKRAC proposed and were not implemented.

I would have expected a Nominet Webinar asking for feedback on this topic, followed by a formal vote, which would have been sent to every member.

Public consultations are not subject to a vote. I don't make the rules...

Even looking here on Acorn. Nothing.

Multiple threads about this including: https://www.acorndomains.co.uk/threads/your-views-drop-catching-uk.172502/

Members have been ignored.

Members were invited to take part. The engagement from members was disappointing, even when I reached out to them individually. That being said, not all the things members proposed in the consultation were implemented, but at least Nominet did have a reason for doing so, how valid that was is another issue.

@webber so have you seen or heard anything on how Nominet are going to police it?

There is less need to police things because the rules are more relaxed.
The same complaints and investigation procedures remain in place as before.

 

[DJ]

One thing:

I think it is important to remember that @webber is just the messenger here and this was proposed instead of the 'pay to play' proposal which most people were also against.

Doesn't mean I like or agree with it, but I just wanted to put that out there.

One other thing, why can't these, or any future changes, be implemented on a trial/review basis with a view to inviting feedback or having a final vote on them in say 3 months time?

 

[dee]

WHen does this actually start ? Anyone know ?

EDIT. Never mind.... the big red letters in initial post give it away///FACEPALM

Cant see how this will work. Surely once someone gets the latency and timing spot on its game over for everyone else ?

Is this one where closest to the Nominet server wins ?

 

[webber]

One thing:

I think it is important to remember that @webber is just the messenger here and this was proposed instead of the 'pay to play' proposal which most people were also against.

Doesn't mean I like or agree with it, but I just wanted to put that out there.

One other thing, why can't these, or any future changes, be implemented on a trial/review basis with a view to inviting feedback or having a final vote on them in say 3 months time?

Thanks DJ, I am however a little bit more than a messenger. I did vote to approve this proposal in the UKRAC. I considered it to be a good compromise and a significantly better outcome than what was panning out two or three years ago with Nominet-controlled auctions or economically controlled access (pay to play).
I'm not yet convinced this will all be a positive change or that dropcatching will be fairer, but the UKRAC has scheduled a review of this about three months after it goes live. That will be a great time to submit you feedback and thoughts after working with it for a couple of months.

 

[JamesTuplin]

Having restrictions will inevitably result in fake memberships/tags. Everyone is free to use as many tags as they want if they thing it will help. Nominet is convinced using multiple tags will not make a meaningful difference.

And you believe this!?

I'm not "happy", there are a few of things the UKRAC proposed and were not implemented.

Can you share with us what proposals the UKRAC made and which were and were not implemented?

Public consultations are not subject to a vote. I don't make the rules...

Previous major changes have warranted a vote. What makes this different? Remember we have already had past votes on this!

Multiple threads about this including: https://www.acorndomains.co.uk/threads/your-views-drop-catching-uk.172502/

I don't see anything of note here other than the initial call for comments a year ago!

There is less need to police things because the rules are more relaxed.
The same complaints and investigation procedures remain in place as before.

More 'relaxed' = Nominet closes their eyes and counts the $ ? The same complaints and investigation procedure that was critically flawed which was the root cause for the need for change?

Echoing a comment made by @Pedigree . The issue is not with you specifically @webber. But it just feels this has been rushed out with no prior warning.

 

[JamesTuplin]

 

[JamesTuplin]

Thanks DJ, I am however a little bit more than a messenger. I did vote to approve this proposal in the UKRAC. I considered it to be a good compromise and a significantly better outcome than what was panning out two or three years ago with Nominet-controlled auctions or economically controlled access (pay to play).
I'm not yet convinced this will all be a positive change or that dropcatching will be fairer, but the UKRAC has scheduled a review of this about three months after it goes live. That will be a great time to submit you feedback and thoughts after working with it for a couple of months.

Will be too late by then im afraid.

 

[webber]

Will be too late by then im afraid.

Surely we have to see it in practice and then draw any conclusions and amend it.

View attachment 3571

Hence my disappointment that I mentioned earlier...
It's unfortunate, but it's really difficult to engage Nominet members, be it consultation, AGM or elections.

But it just feels this has been rushed out with no prior warning.

This is three years in the making! Far from rushed. A lot of people have been asking why is this taking so long to implement. Even after the Board approved it some were asking why it's not yet ready.

The same complaints and investigation procedure that was critically flawed which was the root cause for the need for change?

That's something outside of the scope of UKRAC, and the commission sits at Board level

Cant see how this will work. Surely once someone gets the latency and timing spot on its game over for everyone else ?

Is this one where closest to the Nominet server wins ?

If your route is stable enough and you can compensate for the latency, then you should have the same chances as anyone else.
We'll have to wait and see, but I am mildly optimistic.

 

[Paullas]

Can anyone suggest (pm is fine) the best host to use so i can get the best latency sames as everyone else. Asking for a friend.

 

[webber]

Can anyone suggest (pm is fine) the best host to use so i can get the best latency sames as everyone else. Asking for a friend.

I use Digital Ocean, their datacentre is in Slough
Some use Mythic Beasts who have a DC at the London Linx exchange

 

[JamesTuplin]

Surely we have to see it in practice and then draw any conclusions and amend it.

Surely it would be have been 'fairer' to either drop all domains at once or within a certain time window (1 hour) e.g domain example123.co.uk drops between 2 and 3pm, this would have lessened the impact multiple tags (and multiple CREATEs) would have.

Hence my disappointment that I mentioned earlier...
It's unfortunate, but it's really difficult to engage Nominet members, be it consultation, AGM or elections.

That may well be. But where is the 'coming soon' notification? The last time there was a vote in these forums, albeit a small vote, people wanted to keep things 'as is'. Was this an option that was put forward?

Nominets argument seems to be stress on servers, but they have resources using surplus funds to fix this.

This is three years in the making! Far from rushed. A lot of people have been asking why is this taking so long to implement. Even after the Board approved it some were asking why it's not yet ready.

Too long in its current state. I find that hard to believe I am afraid. Instead of pay to win its collude to win.

 

[cav]

Did Nominet consider no dropping and replacing it with an auction run by Nominet?

 

[lazarus]

Cant see how this will work. Surely once someone gets the latency and timing spot on its game over for everyone else ?

Is this one where closest to the Nominet server wins ?

I think it would be more about fine-tuning instead of how far away you are. Theoretically, if I was in Australia I could send my request off 200 ms ahead of time and still beat someone who is 0.5 ms away if I timed it right.

 

[JamesTuplin]

Did Nominet consider no dropping and replacing it with an auction run by Nominet?

Was voted against.

 

[webber]

Did Nominet consider no dropping and replacing it with an auction run by Nominet?

Yes, that was one of the very first proposals, I think it was back in 2019 or 2020.
There was a strong sentiment against this among members since it was seen as a money-making scheme at a time when Nominet was splashing large sums on various company acquisitions.

Surely it would be have been 'fairer' to either drop all domains at once or within a certain time window (1 hour) e.g domain example123.co.uk drops between 2 and 3pm, this would have lessened the impact multiple tags (and multiple CREATEs) would have.

If you drop them all at once you are spreading your resources over X number of domains you are trying to catch that day. Therefore some would be tempted to acquire additional tag/s resources. I advocated for a smaller window in which domains would drop because a few members have suggested this and it would reduce load on servers if it was during the night for example. But Nominet was keen to retain the reg timestamp as the drop timestamp for more consistency. This was all discussed in the consultations.

The last time there was a vote in these forums, albeit a small vote, people wanted to keep things 'as is'.

There was no overwhelming majority for any solution.

Can you share with us what proposals the UKRAC made and which were and were not implemented?

Some initial feedback exclusively from UKRAC members is in this meeting minutes. It was later opened to wider membership feedback which you can see in the roundtable and the minutes that followed.

 

[cav]

Was voted against.

that’s a shame. A well run Nominet could’ve used the profits to fund lower reg fees/good causes…. and everyone has the same chance of acquiring the domain name (deep pockets depending)

 

[dee]

Cant see how this will stop extra tags now its been explained . It will still give extra chances at catches if theres still a quota (even if polling is gone)