20i Domains

Nominet announces new policy consultation for expiring .UK domains

Discussion in 'Nominet General Information' started by Acorn Newsbot, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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    Snakes everywhere :-D
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. diablo

    diablo Well-Known Member

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    New members, sleeper cells - you just know that as soon as certain topics are mentioned, a certain individual will return using a different username ;)

    EDIT: To be clear, I hadn't realised sigh was a new member. I thought Ian was sighing :) I was thinking more of Invincible when I posted this.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  4. sigh Malta

    sigh Member

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    I only had to sign up a couple of months ago to get libellous comments removed. I'd rather not have.
     
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  5. Jiblob United Kingdom

    Jiblob Active Member

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    Hopefully if they make it more expensive to get hold of the names it might drive the prices up a bit.
     
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  6. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

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    @Hay @sigh Stop this in public. It will not be tolerated. Any slagging off will be simply deleted sooner or later so dont waste your time. Thank you!
     
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  7. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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    He started it Sir lol.
     
  8. Derek Portugal

    Derek Active Member

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    As a small volume buyer of dropped domains I'm not too fussed who's the best cheater currently, as long as they're flipping the domains quickly. If I buy them from someones "tag partners" or I buy them from DL, its all the same.

    From a selfish point of view what I don't want is the Bulgarian cheating army or Hay or similar winning an unfair share. If Robs friends tags win them then I at least have access to buy the ones I'm interested in at whatever the market values them at.

    If we do go down the path of some sort of "lucky dip", lets say a big welcome to all of the new August Nominet members:

    [​IMG]

    Ignoring my selfish needs, I think the only realistic outcome is a public auction of any domain that 2+ people wanted. It's going to be impossible to police otherwise. You can't stop someone using genuine people to create brand new accounts, whether its for catching, lottery tickets or any other "fair" system.
     
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  9. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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  10. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Afaik, Hay was slapped by Nominet.
     
  11. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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    haha maybe.. ;)
     
  12. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Fishing for flaws in the DAC ?
     
  13. Hay

    Hay Active Member Exclusive Member

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    DAC is being taken... id have it gone tomorrow if it was up to me :)
     
  14. mcrick Portugal

    mcrick Member

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    The economically controlled option, with a dedicated drop catching EPP connection and a requirement for any participant to pay a minimum of £600 p/a for 6 connections and with a possibility to buy extra connections in batches of 6 for a further £600 p/a up to a total of 60 connections (10 batches at £6000 p/a) relies on the drop time of domain names being published which would either be one single time during each day or individual times per domain name possibly based on each domain names original creation timestamp.

    It’s not a lottery ticket system because there is a technical requirement to create and send the EPP request at exactly the right moment in either drop time scenario. Nominet do not consider that anyone would really need to pay for more than a single £600 p/a fee because the drop timestamp information is now published beforehand and the requirement to use the DAC no longer exists, however they obviously recognise that some will would wish to do so and would rather let them do it in this way instead of signing up for more unnecessary memberships to gain a perceived advantage.

    The idea that Nominet staff are going to do sit down in an office or over video call for face to face interviews with prospective members to ask them to promise they aren’t working in concert with any other member is absurd. A huge expense and waste of time that wouldn’t prove anything.

    The annual fee for membership including access to all systems required to drop catch has been the same for a very long time and it is no barrier to any sort of collusion, permitting all and sundry with a very basic understanding and no requirement to have any technical ability because hosted services exist operating on mandatory revenue share basis, which is at no way arms length, and with a cost of doing so akin to the price of a streaming music service subscription or a basic mobile phone contract per month, to involve themselves. People will and do break the spirt of the rules and game things.

    I agree that there is a perceived benefit of auctions because it clearly demonstrates added values of premium domain names to the general public, potentially assisting in existing domain name registrants/portfolio operators receiving better prices.

    Nominet choosing to dedicate resources to assign value to individual domain names and then pricing them at a premium isn’t something that is a “next on the agenda” type thing. Doing that requires a lot of work when an auction model functions more efficiently. The market decides the value of any domain name at the time it is auctioned, as is the case with .ee (Estonia) for example. Proceeds from the auctions are likely to be ring fenced.

    Nominet didn’t ignore rule breaking for a long time in order to eventually bring this to the table and blame people for not following the spirit of the rules. Actually policing rule breaking is ineffective and clearly not possible because it’s not difficult to separate things out with multiple individuals all using the same system and state “yes we are all truly separate people and each of us pays their own bills. Here’s the proof. We are all operating at arms length even if we do happen to all know of each other.” Nominet has to take people at their word on the basis of something such as this. They do investigate technical collusion but it’s often incredibly hard to prove this even if certain people seem to be doing exceptionally well.

    Nominet have always largely looked the other way in respect of the secondary market, hence the proliferation of members joining exclusively to interact with Nominet systems to be involved with it.

    Maintaining the DAC for dropcatching is inefficient as the product has been criticised for having had various flaws over the years, hence removing the requirement to use it for drop catching is technically sensible. The DAC is a particularly non-standard when stacked against most other registries. There is a move towards the idea of operating to general standards.

    Many of the 2019 consultation roundtable and submitted responses suggested the auction model and letting the market determine the value of an expiring domain name. It’s fairly common for registries to operate in this way. The idea for the token system (see the policy document) stems from .ee and is based on a standard RFC. The winner of an auction receives a token which they may take to any registrar to register the domain name they have won.
     
  15. Derek Portugal

    Derek Active Member

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    Policing is impossible in a fair and transparent way.

    When people are setting up hosted catching services with enforced split revenue selling, how can anyone realistically argue they're not colluding? Nobody is blind, we can see what's going on but its difficult to 100% prove.

    Likewise with certain tags making Hay while sun shines. They appear to be cheating but you can't prove it.

    I'm also sure its just a coincidence that lots of Bulgarians with no running water or electric in their villages have taken a sudden interest in catching UK domains.

    If you crack down on any of them people will just get more clever in their cheating. Sure all these OVA tags in the arse end of the 3rd world stand out. Change them to a bunch of Smiths and Johnsons in Liverpool or Leeds and its going to be impossible.

    There are only 2 fair ways if people are honest. An auction, or a lottery. It's clear that domain catchers aren't honest so we're back to 1 solution only. But how do we deal with the elephant in the room of how we're going to get around Nominet banking £40,000 by directly auctioning a government domain. If you can get around that then the fairest way for everyone would be Nominet auctioning domains that 2 or more people wanted. If there are public perception issues with them cashing in like this the money could be ring fenced and donated to charity.
     
  16. super-whois United Kingdom

    super-whois Active Member

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    Good evening David Thornton, may I suggest you stop riding the gravy train, and stop signing up to aliases on here quicker than the so called colluding drop catchers apply for fake membership at Nominet.

    What is the £500+VAT membership application fee spent on exactly? Any company worth its salt would want to vet its membership, and identify attempts at using aliases. Although saying that, you prefer to use multiple aliases ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  17. Nigel United Kingdom

    Nigel Well-Known Member

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    Are you an employee or official of Nominet?
    I think you owe it to the members of acorn to identify yourself? We all know each other, but doesn't seem right that you've appeared anonymously - advocating changes that will affect a lot of the members on here.
    You joined acorn last month but can't see you've posted before - so can only assume that you joined in readiness for this thread. And now producing essays on behalf of nominet.
     
  18. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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    If Nominet are the registry for UK domains, then it should be a democracy not a dictatorship. I'm (for lack of better words) fucking sick of them trying to grab as much money as they can out of members. I as well as all members, have already paid a membership fee of £600. £100 a year too, where does this go? If they fuck this up I'd happily resign my membership with Nominet and move on the greener pastures. It's becoming a shit show now.
     
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  19. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    Whom might I be addresses my response to? If it is David, drop me an email, would welcome further dialogue with you. For £500 sign-up, and with the ability to use that membership for voting rights in the direction of Nominet; I consider this not to be beyond the undertaking of their team to at least carry out due-diligence instead of just basing an application on the validity of being human. If Nominet requested a face to face dialogue, be that video, after ID has been vetted (I'm told they now use photo ID and selfie), they can at least confirm the person is not an alias; and I don't know about you, but I certainly don't know anyone willing to go as far as being interviewed on a subject matter they know little about, let alone hand over one of the most important pieces of government documentation they have.

    Why cannot the above be combined with rolling out an ROR system that removes the DAC, removes the load, and allows a fairer chance for all. I don't particularly like Nominet holding out their hands for an ongoing subscription to the EPP, but if members can buy 10 blocks of 6 connections they might prefer this than 10 memberships; or at least reduce this down a little if they have deep pockets. Would any of them fancy 10 membership sign ups of 10 blocks totalling £60k per year based on the quality of domains? I doubt it!
     
  20. Derek Portugal

    Derek Active Member

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    They won't care. The real money is being made in .co.uk registrations, and the brand hatchet jobs of .uk registrations. They don't care what someone on a domain forum thinks. We are not giving them any real money and we're irrelevant.
     
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  21. Derek Portugal

    Derek Active Member

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    What would your due diligence consist of? Theres no requirement of expert level knowledge of domains, catching, or anything else to be a member.

    If I tell my family members to sign up and I put the money in their bank accounts to do so, how are you going to stop it?

    The problem only gets even worse when you have access to people in Malta and Bulgaria who'll do anything for £5

    If you can't stop it then the only fair way to proceed is assume everyones cheating, and remove that edge that they have.