20i Domains

Suspicious TAG changes

Discussion in 'Domain Research' started by webber, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. webber

    webber Active Member

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    There seems to be some sort of consolidation of domains from various different tags to a new tag SALESTRAR of @Tool.Domains
    I had these domains on my watchlist at @dropped.uk and one day a bunch of alerts came through:
    law.uk TAG changed SPANEVA to SALESTRAR
    nex.uk TAG changed NEDKOV to SALESTRAR
    mad.uk TAG changed VGAVRAILOVA to SALESTRAR
    mac.uk TAG changed TULANG to SALESTRAR
    job.uk TAG changed SUPERSTOR to SALESTRAR
    ali.uk TAG changed PAGERULES to SALESTRAR
    payment.uk TAG changed PAGERULES to SALESTRAR
    rent.uk TAG changed SUPERSTOR to SALESTRAR
    boyfriend.uk TAG changed SCHAKALOV to SALESTRAR
    shops.uk TAG changed MIXACTIVITY to SALESTRAR
    budgets.uk TAG changed VGAVRAILOVA to SALESTRAR

    These were all tags previously accused of colluding with Tool Domains.
    Obviously these could all be legitimate sale transactions, but it would still be odd that they all completed in the same day.
    I'm not making any accusations here, just pointing out something rather suspicious.
    Presumably someone at Nominet or someone with an extensive monitoring system can see if there are more of these.

     
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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. super-whois United Kingdom

    super-whois Active Member

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    Worth noting that the timing aligns with membership renewals falling due...
     
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  4. webber

    webber Active Member

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    Also, these were all transferred to SALESTRAR on 31 July and then renewed on 1 Aug.
    A pattern too consistent to be coincidence
     
  5. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    What, you mean like these:

    aad.uk
    aae.uk
    aah.uk
    aai.uk
    aav.uk
    abk.uk
    abn.uk
    abr.uk
    acg.uk
    acj.uk
    adl.uk
    aeb.uk
    afc.uk
    afr.uk
    afs.uk
    afx.uk
    aga.uk
    agg.uk
    ahj.uk
    ahl.uk
    ahn.uk
    ahp.uk
    aic.uk
    ais.uk
    ait.uk
    ajt.uk
    akd.uk
    aki.uk
    akt.uk
    akw.uk
    ali.uk
    alo.uk
    apb.uk
    apw.uk
    asy.uk
    atp.uk
    avm.uk
    axs.uk
    aya.uk
    ayh.uk
    aym.uk
    ays.uk
    bar.uk
    bbj.uk
    bbs.uk
    bce.uk
    bcl.uk
    bef.uk
    bgd.uk
    bgf.uk
    bhe.uk
    bih.uk
    bis.uk
    bjh.uk
    bkb.uk
    bkt.uk
    blw.uk
    bna.uk
    bnf.uk
    bnm.uk
    bnr.uk
    bot.uk
    bsk.uk
    bvc.uk
    bvp.uk
    bxh.uk

    Bear in mind there are legitimate reasons why these were all renewed on Aug 1, and it could be as simple as buying them. These were caught in the ROR and whoever caught them it's one hell of a haul. Of course I could give you the LLLs starting with C to Z but that would be a lot of scrolling. Maybe just message Kalin and ask him. He posted here the other day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  6. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

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  7. webber

    webber Active Member

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    Susannah, were these previously on/caught by a different tag?
     
  8. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    pm sent
     
  9. webber

    webber Active Member

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    Kalin was tagged in the original post so he should have been made aware.
    I have sent him a pm and email now to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  10. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    It just seems sensible to ask him so he can explain what all those changes were about if he wants to.
     
  11. DJ Wood United Kingdom

    DJ Wood Active Member

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    I very much doubt he would want to and even if he did, would anybody actually believe the reason?
     
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  12. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    I recognise that.
     
  13. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    It is quite clear that Kalin spotted an opportunity at ROR to register more tags because the terms allowed it. I'd guess that the number of domains successfully registered in July would have determined whether it was worth signing up the tags as members in August to reduce the £80 reg fees. Kalin said at the time that he'd spoke to Nominet to explain the association and would this year merge the domains into a broker service he was launching...perhaps this is it. Whether you believe this or not, Kalin doesn't have to explain himself, but Nominet perhaps do!
     
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  14. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    Basically looks like a team https://tool.domains/about-the-startup of eastern european software devs and seo "experts" set upon UK domaining market with the notion of picking up some low hanging fruits, must have looked like real rich pickings, proper christmas come early with all the various loopholes they could exploit and I'm just surprised it took this long to be honest.
     
  15. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    I have no vested interest in which domain catcher did what, because I don't catch domains myself. As you say Ian, what is far more clear is that Nominet themselves are tasked to run a system that is fair for everyone, secure from circumvention and gaming, and prevents people from dominating name drops in such a way that it disadvantages everyone else. My suspicion (and actually I think Nominet would admit this) is that they haven't been able to keep control of their own processes, or to enforce their rules. Some would of course argue that that was deliberate, and they let things unravel as a pretext to bring in different systems, but I don't personally presuppose that conspiracy theory. I'd like to believe that isn't true. My philosophy generally is never to attribute to conspiracy what can be explained through shambles. Your mileage may differ. The more immediate question, with the mass-drop in September impending, is: are there still exploitable flaws in Nominet's systems? And also, will multiple tags be used involving associated parties, contrary to the AUP (much harder to enforce)?

    To a certain extent, I want to think the best of Kalin - for example, I was unhappy at recent references to his nationality, and the photograph of poor farmers from that country. I thought that was poor. However, I do my homework, and I don't think anyone should shy away from objective facts.

    Almost half of all the LLL's that dropped in the ROR end-game last July are now sitting, consolidated, on Tool Domain's Salestrar tag. By any stretch of the imagination that is quite a feat.

    There were 96 LLL's that start with 'A' which dropped in that ROR last July, and the tally of what tag they are currently on reads as follows:

    SALESTRAR (Tool Domains): 45
    Registrar-EU: 10
    Ostashko: 4
    Tuplin: 4
    FindYourDomain: 3
    GoDaddy: 3
    Info-AT: 3
    Warburton: 3
    Google: 2
    Moore-IE: 2
    NetPresto: 2
    Servitor: 2
    3DWeb: 1
    Cambridge: 1
    Centraserve: 1
    DMorgan: 1
    Dof (Stenning): 1
    Domeinwinkel: 1
    Domsuk: 1
    LCN: 1
    SafetyNet: 1
    Stuka-PH: 1
    Webber: 1
    Domains believed sold on: at least 2

    That is just the numbers for LLL's beginning with the letter 'A'.

    These are just statistics. It's up to Nominet whether they think their system has been working equally for all parties trying to catch their names.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  16. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    To recap, I'm impartial about the personalities involved. Nominet leaves the door open. People take their opportunities. What disturbs me is if nothing is done to make the UK namespace secure, and to enforce rules that actually work. Will that happen at the start of September, or will it once again see a few individuals making disproportionate gains to the detriment of everyone else?

    I reviewed the ROR (supposed) endgame above.

    There were 96 'A' LLL domains which dropped in that name drop last July. If you look at who currently has them on their tags, with the exception of a couple of sales this past year, the tally is:

    45 are on Tool Domains' 'Salestrar' tag (including all the migrations on Saturday from other tags).

    22 other registrars got the rest (averaging just over 2 each). That is NOT equal access.

    This brings the system into disrepute.

    A similar pattern occurred this January, when Namesco's regrettable mass-registrations dropped in huge numbers (because nobody told them to register them in the first place, which oh, happens to be one of the Registrar rules).

    In total 81 'A' LLL domains dropped in the Namesco name dump.

    The BHAYDOM tag has 40 of them.

    23 other registrars got the rest (averaging just under 2 each) That is NOT equal access.

    In detail (and remember this is only the LLLs starting with 'A' - multiply the effect for 'B' to 'Z':

    The 40 names on the BHAYDOM tag (and this is not personal, it's indicative of a system problem, and do we even know if September will be better?):

    abq.uk
    acq.uk
    adq.uk
    aeh.uk
    afm.uk
    afq.uk
    ahq.uk
    aji.uk
    ajq.uk
    ajz.uk
    alq.uk
    amq.uk
    aoq.uk
    apq.uk
    aqg.uk
    aqh.uk
    aqj.uk
    aqk.uk
    aqn.uk
    aqv.uk
    aqz.uk
    atq.uk
    auq.uk
    avb.uk
    avd.uk
    avz.uk
    awq.uk
    awx.uk
    axb.uk
    axc.uk
    axd.uk
    axf.uk
    axg.uk
    axh.uk
    axk.uk
    axr.uk
    axv.uk
    axz.uk
    ayq.uk
    ayx.uk

    So:

    BHAYDOM: 40
    23 other registrars averaged just under 2 each:

    Vaughan: 9
    Webber: 4
    GlobalNetNames: 3
    Motah: 3
    Registrar-EU: 3
    Starworks: 2
    123Reg: 1
    1api: 1
    3DWeb: 1
    BeaneyDesign: 1
    Charles: 1
    Compusolve: 1
    Cunningham: 1
    Cyntra: 1
    Dynadot: 1
    Elife: 1
    Enterfirst: 1
    LThornley: 1
    Moore-IE: 1
    Morley: 1
    Netistrar: 1
    Stitchbob: 1
    TheSide: 1

    So to repeat: has Nominet taken action to prevent this kind of disparity happening again in the Ionos/Fasthosts name dump in September, or has it given up?
    There are at least 1,300,000 names being dumped in a fortnight. Over a million will not be re-registered. The .uk namespace will haemorrhage names. But there will be a small proportion of valuable domains. Will it be groundhog day or will things be more evenly balanced this time?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  17. Tool.Domains Bulgaria

    Tool.Domains Member

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    You ask, I answer :) Salestrar will be a new generation domain marketplace where the domain seller must transfer the domain in to the marketplace registrar in order to maximise domain sales. In this way there is no Escrow process. The Buyer receives the domain instantly, which is almost unheard of among domain marketplaces (which have an average delivery time of days to weeks) and a clear advantage. Renewals will be at near cost price and the marketplace is 0% commission and does not hide buyer details from the seller. The Seller will have a highly customisable landing page, every domain that uses it will get stats, SSL installed, Whois can be public to drive leads etc. It will be a revolution compared to Sedo, Afternic and the old ones and we'll compete with DAN (a very decent company) for the future of domain sales.

    Although it's not ready as a marketplace yet, some TAGs have decided to make use of the super cheap (cost price, non-VAT-added because we're non-UK, EU VAT registered) renewal to renew their RoR catches. Salestrar is an ACP and can handle domains of third parties. No domain ownership has changed, just registrar. We didn't mind as holding attractive domains (although with zero profit from renewals) is a very good way to market Salestrar among domainers.

    Anyone who would like to sign up to be notified for the start of Salestrar, can do so at https://salestrar.com :) And if Nominet does kill the dropcatching (god forbid) and you're a UK domainer, you can show them what you think about the decision by cancelling your membership and come to Salestrar to have 3.90 domain renewals (Transaction costs may be added depending on payment means) with no VAT added and a great domain selling experience at the buyer front which will be at Namio.com

    So to summarize a lot of domains at Salestrar means nothing more than a lot of domains being at Sedo, Afternic, Dan, etc. We plan to manage millions of domains (all TLDs) in Salestrar long term and everyone is welcome to join. And if the Salestrar model can provide what currently Nominet memberships provide for domainers and many of them are cancelled, Nominet may reconsider the (broken in my opinion) auction model. In no way can losing hundreds of members look good in a member based organisation. It's bad for their pockets and their reputation.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  18. LCHappy United Kingdom

    LCHappy Active Member

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    You expect people to transfer their names to you to hold when you've pulled the alleged strokes you have? You've got a sense of humour I'll give you that.
     
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  19. Sirbigman

    Sirbigman Active Member

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    No offence mate but your reputation precedes you. I don’t think anyone who’s serious in the UK name space will transfer domains to your platform. I would rethink my strategy if I were you. It sounds ridiculous to be honest.
     
  20. Siusaidh

    Siusaidh Retired Member

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    pm sent
     
  21. Tool.Domains Bulgaria

    Tool.Domains Member

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    We work in 150+ TLDs and don't really need any specific involvement from the UK market regarding Salestrar. Whether you want to join or not, we're fine either way. I only posted because multiple people wanted an explanation why domains are accumulating in the SALESTRAR TAG.