.UK Announced

[Stephen]

.uk Registrar Conference 2012 - making it worthwhile

I'm definitely not in a conciliatory mood. Far from it. In fact, after 3 days of stonewalling from Nominet I came away from an expensive, very draining and demanding 13-hour 3-day consultation feeling that I learned virtually nothing at all about what Nominet's own plans are or on what basis any of them were formulated. I literally can't count the number of times I was directed back to the wording of the consultation as "explanation" of one or other aspect of it............

Due to the stonewalling, inability to provide answers, and no commitments from nominet, with this future event coming up

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.uk Registrar Conference 2012 – new .uk domain service consultation

A consultation about a proposed new direct.uk service is now underway. We recognise that the proposals would represent significant change for the .uk domain name space and would have many different implications for our registrar community. Therefore this year’s .uk registrar conference will focus on the implications of this potential new service.

The .uk conference will take place on Wednesday 21st November at the Sky Loft (Level 28), Millbank Tower, London W1P 4QP. The event will be webcast for those unable to attend in person.

If you are interested in attending please register your details.
If you are interested in joining the webcast please register your details
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Do you think we can but pressue on Nominet to have at this meeting evolved their thinking and explain what the feedback is and in general move the whole matter forward rather than just repeat the current proposal, if so how?

Rgds
Stephen

 

[Stephen]

Nominet and Registrar liability?

.........
Surely bluewidgets.co.uk have a stronger claim, under common law, than someone with a registered mark for blue widgets that isn't being actively used?.........

Thanks for the articles, do you not think that their would also be a legal claim for damages from bluewidgets.co.uk againist Nominet and also the registrar for selling the domain bluewidget.uk?

This would not just be a .uk launch issue but this claim could arise for any future .uk registered so would continue as an ongoing problem!.

 

[Edwin]

Spot on, Stephen. When I've chatted to business owners about the idea of .uk, they initially thought it sounded good or at least not bad as their "first reaction". It was only when I pointed out the (very real) consequences for their existing web address that they came to realise the problem.

 

[monaghan]

I would certainly like to see Nominet give some answers as to how they are going to protect the small business who has built their .co.uk brand but didn't trademark their domain. This whole issue is far wider than a few domainers who will suffer a hit on their portfolio (not suggesting for a minute that there's anything wrong with holding a portfolio!). It is these small businesses that potentially will get hit the hardest in my opinion and Nominet don't seem to be giving us any info.

 

[Edwin]

I would certainly like to see Nominet give some answers as to how they are going to protect the small business who has built their .co.uk brand but didn't trademark their domain. This whole issue is far wider than a few domainers who will suffer a hit on their portfolio (not suggesting for a minute that there's anything wrong with holding a portfolio!). It is these small businesses that potentially will get hit the hardest in my opinion and Nominet don't seem to be giving us any info.

Nothing in any conversation I had with any Nominet staff (and I raised this issue over a dozen times over 3 days with various people) gave me a feeling that anyone within Nominet cared about this particular issue in a concrete way.

In other words, they were willing to listen to other proposals and might even have found them "fairer" but they're not inherently bothered about the huge problems their proposal in its current form would cause existing businesses. It "doesn't compute" for them.

 

[monaghan]

That's the problem, there's very few people that actually understand how things work and more and more is hidden away and those who do understand labelled as "geeks" and dismissed in favour of those with the fancy words.

 

[julian]

I agree totally - but I think you and me are on our own here with these thoughts - its probably a bit hard to come to terms with when you have thousands of domains though

Even if .uk doesn't happen, a more convenient, more concise address system will certainly happen as part of the natural improvement of the web, eventually (soon in my opinion). I find vain hopes that such plans will be abandoned forever (and portfolios therefore protected forever) comparable in likelihood to somehow halting a hurricane with a machine constructed from two twigs and an elastic band.

I apologise if I'm missing the point

 

[Stephen]

1 million claims plus?

Thanks for the articles, do you not think that their would also be a legal claim for damages from bluewidgets.co.uk againist Nominet and also the registrar for selling the domain bluewidget.uk?

This would not just be a .uk launch issue but this claim could arise for any future .uk registered so would continue as an ongoing problem!.

just joining up the dots on another area, as Nominet have stated they cannot contact the registrants due to the data protection act, then if they go ahead with their proposal without making the current uk owners aware of the situation the number effecting (and so being able to claim damages) could exceed 1,000,000 domains.....

I hope Nominet (and the registrars) have a lot of insurance.

I do know Nominet do not have an external legal opinion to protect them.

 

[Aegean]

I agree too Julian.

OK I'm not an experienced domainer, I'm a developer / online project manager. However I don't understand the logic behind this argument against the .uk introduction.

Just because you own a domain with one extension, it surely doesn't entitle you to another. I recently read (from a link on here) that Barclays own bank.co.uk and due to this introduction they will "lose" bank.uk. They wont lose it because they don't own it, they'll have to buy it, so thats a false scenario. They don't own bank.com either, or bank.org.uk. Company names are protected already.

For example, I had a business customer of mine with 10 bike shops interested in bikes.co.uk for his business. However bikes.co.uk is controlled by a domain leasing company and unless you are willing to lease the name you won't get it. Bikes.org.uk is owned by someone else, as are bikes.me.uk and bikes.com. So whats the problem if he buys bikes.uk?

Generally I buy domains on here for business clients of mine that are actually going to use them, or for myself to develop personally, but the truth is that I have had many conversations with frustrated "real" businesses who have been held to ransom by people who own domains they want. So it is increasingly difficult to obtain the name they want for their business website.

Talking to a few of them recently and telling them about the possible .uk introduction, almost all of them were pleased, thinking they might now actually be able to get a name that would benefit their business.

For me personally, It does look like domainers trying to protect their own investments, rather than any genuine objection to an inevitable improvement of the UK domain name system. Sorry but thats how it seems, not one argument I have seen makes any sense in the business world.

 

[Stephen]

I agree totally - but I think you and me are on our own here with these thoughts - its probably a bit hard to come to terms with when you have thousands of domains though

I do have thousands of domains and yes it would be sad to see their value be extinguished but my greatest loss by far (90% plus) would be if my top 10 domains go to somebody else in the .uk auctions as proposed.

It is not the number of domains, it is the principle.

Edwins report has shown that real businesses will be critically effected and that is just the tip of the iceburg.

 

[Aegean]

I do have thousands of domains and yes it would be sad to see their value be extinguished but my greatest loss by far (90% plus) would be if my top 10 domains go to somebody else in the .uk auctions as proposed.

So Stephen, if you don't mind me asking, is your main objection to the .uk introduction the fact that it may devalue some domains you already own?

 

[websaway]

Nothing in any conversation I had with any Nominet staff (and I raised this issue over a dozen times over 3 days with various people) gave me a feeling that anyone within Nominet cared about this particular issue in a concrete way.

In other words, they were willing to listen to other proposals and might even have found them "fairer" but they're not inherently bothered about the huge problems their proposal in its current form would cause existing businesses. It "doesn't compute" for them.

This is what I find more alarming than anything, to the point that it's suspicious.
If the staff were fully behind the proposals they would formulate defensive answers.

 

[foz]

For example, I had a business customer of mine with 10 bike shops interested in bikes.co.uk for his business. However bikes.co.uk is controlled by a domain leasing company and unless you are willing to lease the name you won't get it. Bikes.org.uk is owned by someone else, as are bikes.me.uk and bikes.com. So whats the problem if he buys bikes.uk?

Do you think they would shell out enough for bikes.uk in a competing auction environment? As it seems the leasing option of bikes.co.uk is a barrier to them?

What is the core domain name for their business website? Would they mind someone else securing it in .uk?

 

[Stephen]

So Stephen, if you don't mind me asking, is your main objection to the .uk introduction the fact that it may devalue some domains you already own?

Aegean

I do not mind you asking, it will move on the debate and I was going to repsond to your well considered post from your clients viewpoint.

Before I answer though, please would you provide the following ;

1. how much do you think your client would pay for bikes.uk?
2. how much do you think Nominet auction would raise on the sale of bikes.uk?
3. how much do you think bikes.uk is worth?

Rgds
Stephen

 

[Aegean]

Aegean

I do not mind you asking, it will move on the debate and I was going to repsond to your well considered post from your clients viewpoint.

Before I answer though, please would you please provide the following ;

1. how much do you think your client would pay for bikes.uk?
2. how much do you think Nominet auction would raise on the sale of bikes.uk?
3. how much do you think bikes.uk is worth?

Rgds
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I do see what you are saying, and from a domainers point of view I suppose it makes sense. However, almost all my customers are not interested in the value of their domains, they are running businesses. They just want a good domain name for their website, which is what actually makes them money.

Even in the case of bikes.uk, my business customer may pay a bit more because its a good name, but he wouldn't go to the levels huge companies with money to burn do. If someone selling bikes.uk wanted too much he'd just get something else, which is actually what he has done.

Joe Public isn't interested in domains, they just type in web addresses. So one newspaper ad has bikes.co.uk and another has bikes.com, and another has bikes.uk - this isnt confusing to me.

Sean - I take your point, I dont have a problem with domainers acting in their self interest, I was just trying to understand why everyone seems so against this introduction. So you are right, its self-interest. Fair enough.

 

[foz]

However, almost all my customers are not interested in the value of their domains, they are running businesses. They just want a good domain name for their website, which is what actually makes them money.

Bikes.co.uk would surely take things to the next level for them, so I would ask what or who is holding them back?

 

[Aegean]

Bikes.co.uk would surely take things to the next level for them, so I would ask what or who is holding them back?

Foz - I was just giving that as a simple example in relation to the .uk thread, not to discuss this particluar name. As it happens, this particular client would never run an online business based on a domain someone else owns, so leasing simply wouldnt even be a consideration for his company.

 

[foz]

And your client(s) having .uk secured by someone else is of no concern to you?

 

[Aegean]

And your client(s) having .uk secured by someone else is of no concern to you?

If I understand you correctly then no - its a different domain, and thats how he would see it. The public are also used to hearing the .co.uk extension. If he wants bikes.uk he'd have to buy it, even if he already owned bikes.co.uk. He also wouldn't be bothered if completely different people owned bikes.org.uk and bikes.me.uk and bikes.com, which they do, as these are different domain names.

 

[foz]

Thanks. My observation is that most businesses secure as many extensions they feel pertinent to their geographical location they operate in (Google is an extreme example, with every extension around the world pursued) So for example a UK business would attempt to secure .co.uk and .com.

With .uk possibly being introduced it will be prudent for most to secure this extension merely as a means to protect their goodwill in the market. From what you've said and the feedback from your clients they don't believe in such protection measures?