.UK Announced

[Edwin]

How many domains do you believe you will lose if it happens? it didn't happen on mass for the LL.co.uk.

All of the main ones that count for the other business that I run, Maps Ltd.

 

[Edwin]

Due to the stonewalling, inability to provide answers, and no commitments from nominet, with this future event coming up

-----------------------------
.uk Registrar Conference 2012 – new .uk domain service consultation

A consultation about a proposed new direct.uk service is now underway. We recognise that the proposals would represent significant change for the .uk domain name space and would have many different implications for our registrar community. Therefore this year’s .uk registrar conference will focus on the implications of this potential new service.

The .uk conference will take place on Wednesday 21st November at the Sky Loft (Level 28), Millbank Tower, London W1P 4QP. The event will be webcast for those unable to attend in person.

If you are interested in attending please register your details.
If you are interested in joining the webcast please register your details
---------------------------------

Do you think we can but pressue on Nominet to have at this meeting evolved their thinking and explain what the feedback is and in general move the whole matter forward rather than just repeat the current proposal, if so how?

Rgds
Stephen

I unfortunately won't be around for that meeting, but I wanted to draw attention to this proposal because I think it's an excellent one. I don't have the "how" though.

 

[GreyWing]

Because you keep telling us that's what's happening.

oh come on,you have made a statement "who think that meeting in secret and looking for legal loopholes is the answer." that doesn't stand up logically.

The state above doesn't add up logically either because you'd need to know what I know in full to know if I am telling people about it.

There are a lot of things going off in secret and need to be kept secret, I do hope when it comes out that you look back on this page and realise what you have said is wide of the mark.

 

[Sound]

oh come on,you have made a statement "who think that meeting in secret and looking for legal loopholes is the answer." that doesn't stand up logically.

The state above doesn't add up logically either because you'd need to know what I know in full to know if I am telling people about it.

There are a lot of things going off in secret and need to be kept secret, I do hope when it comes out that you look back on this page and realise what you have said is wide of the mark.

There are a lot of things going off in secret and need to be kept secret From whom

 

[GreyWing]

There are a lot of things going off in secret and need to be kept secret From whom

From Nominet, I promise when it comes out you will agree why it needs to be kept secret. Could be in the next week or two.

 

[websaway]

I like some other members are happy for the launch of .uk and get a little pissed off when some people think that they represent the view of all members on the forum in the fight to stop .uk. I have been impressed by Edwin and Stephen's passion and dedication and its great for the forum to see the transparency of their views unlike others who think that meeting in secret and looking for legal loopholes is the answer.

I have always been a developer and have never had the desire to amass a large portfolio as I always believed that something would come along like Apps or other TLD's to water down its value over time.

Was always amazed at how lacking in business acumen Nominet was only a fool would have allowed so few people to hoover up thousands of suspended domains for one purpose only, to sell at a profit.

I have yet to see on any business forum any support for stopping the launch of .uk even on the affiliate forum http://www.affiliates4u.com it was meet with contempt for domainers

The people who will decided if this happens are the large Registrars and the government both of whom have much to gain and little to lose from the change.

I do wish people would stop scaremongering about TM holders, most TM holders will have very little interest in domains its not the reason they applied for a TM in the first place the only people who have been busy lately on the TM website are domainers looking for a loophole.

I also understand that unlike others I have very little to lose and much to gain.

People will obviously approach trademark owners that are not in the know and advise and proposition them.

 

[Edwin]

It is interesting to look at .nz's less controversial proposal to open up 2nd level domains under .nz (bear in mind that existing domain holders were to be given first rights) and the response.

Here's the official presentation by the NZ Registry at the recent ICANN45 conference.

http://toronto45.icann.org/meetings...nd-level-registrations-monahan-17oct12-en.pdf

From the presentation,
63% of respondents were against opening up .nz. 32% were in favour. 5% did not express a preference but submitted comments.

Reasons against (taken directly from the presentation)
- Current registrants would feel compelled to register resulting in a duplication of domain names
- Additional costs would be incurred as a result of requiring additional registrations and making associated changes
- The confusion and uncertainty it would create would increase phishing and other security issues
- There is no demonstrated benefit from the change
- The current system is effective and well understood

Reasons for (ditto)
- The current system is a historical artefact and there is no reason to force people into a restricted set of 2LDs
- 2nd level domain registration is a worldwide experience and it is appropriate here
- Will enhance pride and identity in NZ brand
- Forward looking strategy that will make .nz a viable option

As a related note, I must commend the .nz team for making all consultation documents open.

 

[sdsinc]

Thanks Edwin. I haven't checked all other countries but I seem to remember that the third level holders were usually given priority (often in order of registration).

 

[Hazel Pegg]

I would certainly like to see Nominet give some answers as to how they are going to protect the small business who has built their .co.uk brand but didn't trademark their domain. <snip> It is these small businesses that potentially will get hit the hardest in my opinion and Nominet don't seem to be giving us any info.

That is a point that I pressed on both Wednesday & Thursday. With no indication that anyone from Nominet understood the issue. Though they did nod and take notes.

 

[websaway]

It is interesting to look at .nz's less controversial proposal to open up 2nd level domains under .nz (bear in mind that existing domain holders were to be given first rights) and the response.

Here's the official presentation by the NZ Registry at the recent ICANN45 conference.

http://toronto45.icann.org/meetings...nd-level-registrations-monahan-17oct12-en.pdf

From the presentation,
63% of respondents were against opening up .nz. 32% were in favour. 5% did not express a preference but submitted comments.

Reasons against (taken directly from the presentation)
- Current registrants would feel compelled to register resulting in a duplication of domain names
- Additional costs would be incurred as a result of requiring additional registrations and making associated changes
- The confusion and uncertainty it would create would increase phishing and other security issues
- There is no demonstrated benefit from the change
- The current system is effective and well understood

Reasons for (ditto)
- The current system is a historical artefact and there is no reason to force people into a restricted set of 2LDs
- 2nd level domain registration is a worldwide experience and it is appropriate here
- Will enhance pride and identity in NZ brand
- Forward looking strategy that will make .nz a viable option

As a related note, I must commend the .nz team for making all consultation documents open.

Makes you wonder though if Nominet have not proposed first refusal to domain holders to avoid exactly this result.

 

[Hazel Pegg]

You might ask who would want the domain name “apfabrications.uk”? There are no trade mark owners to battle, however there are several businesses registered at Companies House using the name format "A P Fabrications", all potentially with a good shout for unregistered rights and who may want the name.

I raised this with Nominet staff at the consultation and suggested that in a case such as the one described above the .uk domain should go to the Company who had already registered the .co.uk. My main focus in opposing the proposals as they currently stand is to protect the small/medium sized business from becoming collateral damage.

 

[Stephen]

It is interesting to look at .nz's less controversial proposal to open up 2nd level domains under .nz (bear in mind that existing domain holders were to be given first rights) and the response.

Here's the official presentation by the NZ Registry at the recent ICANN45 conference.

http://toronto45.icann.org/meetings...nd-level-registrations-monahan-17oct12-en.pdf

From the presentation,
63% of respondents were against opening up .nz. 32% were in favour. 5% did not express a preference but submitted comments.

Reasons against (taken directly from the presentation)
- Current registrants would feel compelled to register resulting in a duplication of domain names
- Additional costs would be incurred as a result of requiring additional registrations and making associated changes
- The confusion and uncertainty it would create would increase phishing and other security issues
- There is no demonstrated benefit from the change
- The current system is effective and well understood

Reasons for (ditto)
- The current system is a historical artefact and there is no reason to force people into a restricted set of 2LDs
- 2nd level domain registration is a worldwide experience and it is appropriate here
- Will enhance pride and identity in NZ brand
- Forward looking strategy that will make .nz a viable option

As a related note, I must commend the .nz team for making all consultation documents open.

Thanks Edwin, as I can now have tommorrow off and that is another nail in Nominet's case.

But as it is dated October 17th why did Nominet NOT bring it to our attention?

 

[Edwin]

Thanks Edwin. I haven't checked all other countries but I seem to remember that the third level holders were usually given priority (often in order of registration).

Correct. I've broken it all down in great detail in my position paper, which you can download from http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/

 

[foz]

But as it is dated October 17th why did Nominet NOT bring it to our attention?

At one point the .uk consultation document was alluding that .nz was being opened up. Has since been removed.

 

[Aegean]

Yes, so long as you insist their business will not be impacted by the launch of .uk if they can only secure one or other of .co.uk or .uk for their main business.

Of course they wont be impacted. You are assuming some of us don't know what we are doing, but I say it is you that doesn't understand the business world.

I have been involved with web development since 1991, when I worked for AT&T then CompuServe, before there was an internet. For me, the argument you make is simply nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You have a lot to learn about how business is done online if thats what you think.

The UK domain industry was set up to enable UK businesses to buy web addresses for their sites, not for domainers. You clearly have no idea of how the real business world works. I am sorry for being so blunt, but I've spent the last year on here reading this rubbish, and frankly you should come to a business meeting with me, and see the folk I deal with. You'd go home with your tail between your legs.

You are acting out of self interest here, that pretty obvious, and maybe fair enough. But don't presume to tell me that my clients don't know what they are doing with web businesses, I bet they know a damn site more than you do, thats obvious to me.

Incidentally, I dont have a problem with domainers, but thats not what domains are for. Some people are just opportunists.

 

[foz]

I bet they know a damn site more than you do, thats obvious to me.

When it comes to domain names, I doubt it. For an online business operating out of the UK not to secure it's .uk equivalent would be foolish.

Edwin is conveying hard facts on this matter. If you divorce his background as a portfolio owner, they still stack up.

 

[GreyWing]

I have been involved with web development since 1991, when I worked for AT&T then CompuServe, before there was an internet. For me, the argument you make is simply nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You have a lot to learn about how business is done online if thats what you think.

Don't mean to be blunt either but if some of us would have been around on the internet since 1991 and knew what we were talking about, as you claim to. We'd have much better portfolios than you seem to.

Your clients business pals don't know what they are doing with their web business if they are UK based and happy to see someone else get the .uk equivalent of their .co.uk

I'm somewhat glad to hear you don't have a problem with domainers, erh considering the forum you have joined.

 

[Edwin]

Of course they wont be impacted. You are assuming some of us don't know what we are doing, but I say it is you that doesn't understand the business world.

I have been involved with web development since 1991, when I worked for AT&T then CompuServe, before there was an internet. For me, the argument you make is simply nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You have a lot to learn about how business is done online if thats what you think.

The UK domain industry was set up to enable UK businesses to buy web addresses for their sites, not for domainers. You clearly have no idea of how the real business world works. I am sorry for being so blunt, but I've spent the last year on here reading this rubbish, and frankly you should come to a business meeting with me, and see the folk I deal with. You'd go home with your tail between your legs.

You are acting out of self interest here, that pretty obvious, and maybe fair enough. But don't presume to tell me that my clients don't know what they are doing with web businesses, I bet they know a damn site more than you do, thats obvious to me.

Incidentally, I dont have a problem with domainers, but thats not what domains are for. Some people are just opportunists.

When I sit in meetings and hear the representative from the BBC saying that they would have to get all the .uk domains equivalent to their hundreds of .co.uk domains because otherwise somebody else would get them, I have a hunch my position isn't just that of a "domainer".

When in the same meeting I hear real business representative after real business representative say EXACTLY the same thing, I'm sure of it. Other people were in those meetings, so I can't get away with "making that up".

And then when I see the most proactive lawfirms already beginning to warn their client base that they are going to have to gear up for the .uk launch because it's essential for them to protect their existing online identity by getting .uk then by golly, I'm cast-iron certain about it.

What is the similarity between the BBC, the other companies, the lawfirms and me? Simple: they've taken the time to FULLY understand the consequences of .uk, divorced of any feelings they may have for .co.uk or how the domain industry has played itself out to date. (Let me tell you, there was no love lost for the secondary market in the meetings - but the people speaking knew that was not relevant to the fundamental "we need OUR .uk" issue that they might be facing very soon).

On your other point, domaining is not all I do. Far from it. I run 2 other companies directly, and have a significant stake in other ventures (none of which are domain related). I have worked in large organisations. I have worked in startups. I work with small businesses and startups all the time here in Cambridge. Oh, and if we're playing the longevity game, I first started out when it was Gopher, Veronica and Jughead, and I remember the first browser coming along in about 1993/94 - quite a ripple of excitement around the office then. I've been in the domain industry since 1996.

 

[Edwin]

This is what happened in Australia last time they looked at rolling out .au in 2010:

The 2010 Names Policy Panel noted that "People thought the current 2LD hierarchy is well-known and understood, and introducing direct registrations would cause unnecessary confusion for little public benefit."

This is what came out of the consultation on .nz:

Reasons against
- Current registrants would feel compelled to register resulting in a duplication of domain names
- Additional costs would be incurred as a result of requiring additional registrations and making associated changes
- The confusion and uncertainty it would create would increase phishing and other security issues
- There is no demonstrated benefit from the change
- The current system is effective and well understood

When two MAJOR registries can come out and say essentially EXACTLY THE SAME THING that shouts loud and clear that these are real problems - not "domainer" problems.

This is, incidentally, why I go to quite extraordinarily lengths to find third party sources for every assertion I post. Because that way I know it's not just the "domainer in me" speaking!

If it helps, there are over 60 different news reports collated on http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/articles.html - not just from "domain industry" sources, but security blogs, major media outlets, newspapers and magazines. If anyone takes the time to read them all, some remarkable consensuses start to emerge.

 

[Aegean]

Yes but there are three and a half million people in NZ and nineteen million in OZ, its a completely different marketplace with far less demand and even less businesses. God knows I have factored that into quite a few business proposals. They are normally treated as the same marketplace actually.

I'm always ready to take another point of view on board Edwin, I'm not arguing for the sake of it and I certainly don't have anything against you personally, but I haven't seen one thing in this whole thread that would make any sense to my business customers.

You shouldn't be so quick to assume others don't know what they're doing. Anyway I was simply trying to put a different view across in the .uk thread, from someone who isn't a domain investor.