.UK Announced

[aZooZa]

I've been supping on Metaxa 7-star since the 80's while simultaneously on BBS's at 300 baud, so I probably beat most of you in terms of online longevity. I still think the Nominet proposal sucks. It just does NOT make sense. Nominet itself as an entity does now not make sense.

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Anyway I was simply trying to put a different view across in the .uk thread, from someone who isn't a domain investor.

I am not a domain investor either. Far from it! But I share many of Edwin's concerns about the proposed introduction of .uk and, having witnessed him in action during the face to face Nominet consultation, can honestly say that he didn't ask questions (or raise objections) solely related to the secondary market. In fact most of what he said when I was present related to the concerns of SMEs.

 

[monaghan]

There are a lot who do know what they are doing and do know the difference between "domain types", however, I'd suggest that there are far more who have no idea and just rely on google. facebook and what they see & hear, these are the ones that regularly fall for cyber squatters, phishing scams and so on. If they read a badly written article in their newspaper or facebook page that simply repeats the ".uk is now the place for UK business on-line", they will simply follow without question.

While protection of portfolio may seem like self interest to some, it also helps all those who have no clue either. My personal portfolio is small and could probably be trimmed further, so while there is some self interest, my main thoughts are the small business type of customer I work with, these are the ones who are likely to have an issue. How many stories do you see of "bedroom web designers" who have simply vanished leaving their customer high and dry (how many of us have caught domains and then been contacted by the previous owner saying that they used to own the domain and were never invoiced by their designer and they can't contact them?).

Yes, there are lots of knowledgeable people out there doing an excellent job, but I'd suggest that there's a huge proportion of customers getting very bad advise.

What we tend to forget is that to many, the Internet is no different from a TV, washing machine or dishwasher, it is simply "just there" and "just works", most don't know how or why and they believe everything that comes up on the screen.

 

[monaghan]

I've been supping on Metaxa 7-star since the 80's while simultaneously on BBS's at 300 baud, so I probably beat most of you in terms of online longevity. I still think the Nominet proposal sucks. It just does NOT make sense. Nominet itself as an entity does now not make sense.

Ah 300 baud, I remember those days, we upgraded our BBS to dual line and 2400 baud and the main sysop managed to blag an Internet mail link via one of the other nodes we were linked to. Those were the days - we even justified it by offering downloads and on-line support to customers

 

[websaway]

Of course they wont be impacted. You are assuming some of us don't know what we are doing, but I say it is you that doesn't understand the business world.

I have been involved with web development since 1991, when I worked for AT&T then CompuServe, before there was an internet. For me, the argument you make is simply nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You have a lot to learn about how business is done online if thats what you think.

The UK domain industry was set up to enable UK businesses to buy web addresses for their sites, not for domainers. You clearly have no idea of how the real business world works. I am sorry for being so blunt, but I've spent the last year on here reading this rubbish, and frankly you should come to a business meeting with me, and see the folk I deal with. You'd go home with your tail between your legs.

You are acting out of self interest here, that pretty obvious, and maybe fair enough. But don't presume to tell me that my clients don't know what they are doing with web businesses, I bet they know a damn site more than you do, thats obvious to me.

Incidentally, I dont have a problem with domainers, but thats not what domains are for. Some people are just opportunists.

You really need to re-read this thread, every bit of it suggests that it is you who doesn't understand the business world. Are you so naive as to think that anything which has value doesn't form a market.

 

[Stephen]

Another viewpoint

Yes but there are three and a half million people in NZ and nineteen million in OZ, its a completely different marketplace with far less demand and even less businesses. God knows I have factored that into quite a few business proposals. They are normally treated as the same marketplace actually…..

The UK I believe is one of the most established and developed namespaces in the world.

German .de only has more domains as they have German and English versions of the same domain. Otherwise the uk would be the largest country tld.

If you compare us to the French (who have a similar size population) numbers and size of their digital economy, we are a decade ahead, which is a long time in the digital world.

I would really like to see the UK namespace and internet infrastructure be not just secure and inventive to uk consumers but a real global force in the world’s digital economy.

…..I'm always ready to take another point of view on board Edwin, I'm not arguing for the sake of it and I certainly don't have anything against you personally, but I haven't seen one thing in this whole thread that would make any sense to my business customers…...

I find that hard to believe, I disagree with some items in this thread but there some truths, viewpoints and points that make sense whatever your standpoint is.

…..You shouldn't be so quick to assume others don't know what they're doing. Anyway I was simply trying to put a different view across in the .uk thread, from someone who isn't a domain investor.

I do thank you for making your points, even though I disagree with most of them. I do hope you will continue to put forward an alternative perspective.

They are valuable in getting this forum to focus on other points of view about the issues.

 

[foz]

From the presentation,
63% of respondents were against opening up .nz. 32% were in favour. 5% did not express a preference but submitted comments.

Nominet may feel inclined to still plow ahead with those sort of numbers?

The thing I observed with the .nz consultation is that the professionals (Corporates, Government and IP) gave detailed responses, however the folk in favour just filled out the document with Yes answers. I wonder if people in favour with very brief replies may not grasp the consequences?

It easy to say Yes to .uk, without thinking hard about it.

 

[Edwin]

Yes, just like I'm sure Nominet will make hay from the folks approving their proposed security "improvements" without understanding that they would actually make the UK namespace LESS secure.

People will feel secure and relax their own behaviour. Nominet's plans won't even slow down the bad apples, who work to timeframes of hours or minutes rather than weeks, and who will find a thousand ways around the pin requirement (let's face it, all the pin proves is that the Royal Mail is able to deliver a letter - it says nothing, nor can it ever do so, about the recipient)

At the same time, the .co.uk/.uk confusion will facilitate more, more successful phishing attempts, and will result in large numbers of commercially sensitive emails going astray.

During the face to face sessions, it was instantly clear that those with some security background instantly grasped all of the above, while those clueless about security bleated on about how Nominet was going to make the UK internet a safer place, parroting the words in Nominet's preamble and press release.

Imagine if scientific research budgets could be weighed in on equally by scientists and those who believe stuff just happens (a bit like magic), evolution is bunk, the earth is 4,000 years old, etc. We'd still be living in caves!

 

[foz]

The calibre of each response should be a factor or at least taken into account, not just the collective percentages.

As they aren't going to be published it's going to be difficult to get a true picture.

 

[Stephen]

Knowledge

..... I am sorry for being so blunt, but I've spent the last year on here reading this rubbish, and frankly you should come to a business meeting with me, and see the folk I deal with. You'd go home with your tail between your legs.........

I would wager that if you did not read this forum and take an interest in uk domains, then you would not be aware that your clients would need to protect their developed names in .co.uk with the .uk equivalent or risk the consequences of NOT having a very similair domain which would be viewed as superior.

All of my business friends who I have spoke to were not aware at all about .uk.

Many of the arguments on this thread are on the process of communication by Nominet and not explaining the wider ramifications.

I have spend a long time trying to get Nominet to see what a post .uk world would really look like if the proposal went ahead as is. I assue you it is not a pretty picture for UK businesses!

 

[Edwin]

I have spend a long time trying to get Nominet to see what a post .uk world would really look like if the proposal went ahead as is. I assue you it is not a pretty picture for UK businesses!

Frankly, it's not a pretty picture if .uk goes ahead. Period. Nominet's proposal just drives the knife deeper then gives it a last twist for good measure, but businesses will feel the pain under ANY scenario which involves the creation of .uk.

See http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/pros-and-cons.html (which looks at the predictable effects of .uk, stripped of the specifics of Nominet's proposal)

 

[Stephen]

Nominet may feel inclined to still plow ahead with those sort of numbers?. .. .

I don’t think so.

One thing the Nominet Director’s will fear is being sued by the many vested interests who have already threatened action. If they don’t having the backing of the responses and feedback they would be on very shaky ground indeed.

….The thing I observed with the .nz consultation is that the professionals (Corporates, Government and IP) gave detailed responses, however the folk in favour just filled out the document with Yes answers. I wonder if people in favour with very brief replies may not grasp the consequences ?
It easy to say Yes to .uk, without thinking hard about it.

I totally agree with so easy to say “YES” and because the way the leading questions are, there are no "pros / cons", no alternatives mentioned and as some of the yes vote respondents would lose nothing and think they could gain premium domains for £20 what is stopping them from saying yes?

 

[Stephen]

The calibre of each response should be a factor or at least taken into account, not just the collective percentages.

As they aren't going to be published it's going to be difficult to get a true picture.

At the Nominet round table they assured me that the standpoint of the respondent would be taken into account when summarizing the results.

Don't give up hope yet that the responses will not be published. They are still thinking about it!

 

[GreyWing]

One thing the Nominet Director’s will fear is being sued by the many vested interests who have already threatened action. If they don’t having the backing of the responses and feedback they would be on very shaky ground indeed.

This has the potential to see Nominet become insolvent. If Nominet raise £200-£300m at auction and succesfully sued, those names that they have sold at auction could no longer be used and the money would have to be given back. Those that paid £200-£300m will sue Nominet for their own costs, marketing etc.

Doesn't take long to rack up millions in court fees, I will be asking the EU to investigate Nominet. There are two guys I know of that will sue them in the US Federal Court (or more accurately, sue ICANN for allowing Nominet to do this).

This could see the end of Nominet as a company, this is how serious this mess is.

 

[Stephen]

View of a post failed .uk consultation

Frankly, it's not a pretty picture if .uk goes ahead. Period. Nominet's proposal just drives the knife deeper then gives it a last twist for good measure, but businesses will feel the pain under ANY scenario which involves the creation of .uk.
See http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/pros-and-cons.html (which looks at the predictable effects of .uk, stripped of the specifics of Nominet's proposal)

Edwin

After your posting of the NZ consultation result (together with all the feedback/observation from the Nominet 3 days) I now believe that Nominet will shelve the idea of .uk and state they will revisit it at a future time. (although I have not given up getting the message out there)

When asked about the harm the proposal has done they will state “what’s all the fuss been about, it was only a consultation”.

I think this is incorrect viewpoint as businesses anticipate risk and by not concluding the position fully, here are some ideas on what might happen over time;

Existing .co.uk owners:

1. Might move over to .com (some of which they already own but have preferred until now to use their .co.uk) as it is known they cannot undermine you at a later date, as it is already a second level tld.

2. Consider moving to one of the new or existing alternative GLT’s – as uk namespace is seen as unsecure as Nominet have stated that .co.uk is not secure by inference.

3. Some extreme move may be to secure own tld like .bbc and them moving away from the uk namespace would send a very poor message to the wider business community

4. Not to so likely but some exporters/service companies may consider using .eu

5. The owners of .uk.net and .uk.com may decide this is time to get a few more registrants in the confusion.​

New .co.uk registrants:

Why built up a .co.uk brand if having the .co.uk domain, trading in the uk, having a uk trademark would not ensure you received the preferential .uk equivalent when it eventually was introduced.​

All the above I believe would change the direction and fortune of the uk namespace.

There is a bit more, but you start to get the picture of a “post failed .uk consultation”.

 

[Edwin]

Stephen, I have much less hope than you do that Nominet will shelve the consultation. If they do, it's a great result - though it brings with it the consequences that you're suggesting unless they publicly stick a stake through its heart and bury the concept 6 feet under.

My instinct is that they will go ahead, perhaps with just enough revisions to keep the largest wolves at bay. With all the consequences that will bring.

You're spot on though in that just by starting the process, Nominet has guaranteed that ALL outcomes will be worse than the 1 October 2012 status quo.

 

[retired_member27]

Oh, and if we're playing the longevity game, I first started out when it was Gopher, Veronica and Jughead, and I remember the first browser coming along in about 1993/94 - quite a ripple of excitement around the office then. I've been in the domain industry since 1996.

Gopher and Veronica, takes me back to my Uni days, good times.

 

[Sound]

It would be great if everyone's post and opinions were treated equally on this forum.

It should not matter if you have been a member for one year or ten or have a post count of 10 or 10,000 some of the one one-upmanship that takes place on here is probably posted by sad men in their underpants who have never worn trousers outside in the real world.

 

[Retired_member41]

It would be great if everyone's post and opinions were treated equally on this forum.

It should not matter if you have been a member for one year or ten or have a post count of 10 or 10,000 some of the one one-upmanship that takes place on here is probably posted by sad men in their underpants who have never worn trousers outside in the real world.

Brilliant post!

People are truly doing a great job though, and although they may hugely benefit from the .uk not going ahead, it's pretty obvious that they are also saving hundreds of thousands of people and businesses from nominets proposal

Keep up the good work everyone.

 

[anthony]

Post sunrise & landrush of .uk, there will be quite a few threads on Acorn about:

- Who got what from their lists.
- Who got around the TM timeouts (remembering Scott Jones in particular, Nominet were happy, their lawyers were happy, even we were happy!)
- Who of the objectors turned tail and grabbed a bunch anyway.

Personally, I've already drawn up my list of TM free names I expect to go to landrush, no doubt the smart ones here too will have done the same, because untimately Nominet WILL get this through, so if you can't beat them, you may as well join them.

Having said that, if I don't get the one in particular I'm after, I'll be slagging them off for years to come!