.UK Announced

[domainseller200]

With over 10 million domains registered I can not see a big % of businesses complaining as I agree with you that those with a proper online presence are going to be offered the .uk 1st

That isn't true - TM holders are being offered them first and why the process that Nominet is currently proposing is not fair to business owners who do not own a TM

'proper online presence' doesn't come into it.

 

[arkvard]

That isn't true - TM holders are being offered them first and why the process that Nominet is currently proposing is not fair to business owners who do not own a TM

'proper online presence' doesn't come into it.

Sorry when I mean online presence I meant before domain traders get the chance to get them. Also if you own a trademark that costs £1,000s to get in the first place shouldn't you be entitled to get 1st refusal on the domain anway?

 

[Rob_F]

I paid £3300 to buy my surname .co.uk on the secondary market, to use as my primary business name. I paid that much to secure the most recognised, most trusted, most respected .uk extension available. I thought it a fair price to pay, as a one off expense.

As a popular surname, there were several existing trademarks for the exact surname. I didn't bother registering my own trademark as my planned use for the domain was very niche, and it was easy enough for me work around existing trademarks. I'd acquire rights through use, in my chosen niche.

As I already owned the premier .uk extension, I wasn't concerned about someone else coming along and registering the .whatever, and developing a site. In my mind, I had the only extension that mattered – the .com was already a very established site, operating in an entirely different area.

Now, if Nominet's proposals go ahead unchanged. I will have zero chance of securing the .uk of my surname as it will go to one of TM holders. I do not consider that fair in the slightest. One of those existing trademark holders could have easily purchased the .co.uk domain from the previous registrant or attempted to win via DRS, but they didn't – it was me who stumped up the cash, and it is me who has paid the renewal fees to Nominet ever since.

The above story is my story, but by no means unique. If this proposal goes ahead, tens of thousands of users will find themselves in a similar situation, potentially much worse.

Note: I do buy and sell domains, as well as being an end user for some. The point is that this isn't just a disaster in the making for 'domainers', it is a disaster in the making for thousands of normal businesses.

- Rob

 

[foz]

The question is is Nominet going to listen to domain traders just looking to hoard more domains away..well I doubt it very much..

Most of the revenue raised in the short domain auctions came from domainers, domainers that can drop half a million without blinking.

If this exercise is to extract monies (in Nominets mind) domainers are their best clients.

 

[foz]

As I already owned the premier .uk extension, I wasn't concerned about someone else coming along and registering the .whatever, and developing a site. In my mind, I had the only extension that mattered – the .com was already a very established site, operating in an entirely different area.

I feel the same way.

 

[Simon]

Sorry when I mean online presence I meant before domain traders get the chance to get them. Also if you own a trademark that costs £1,000s to get in the first place shouldn't you be entitled to get 1st refusal on the domain anway?

In a number of previous landrushes .eu,.me,.tel,.xxx dodgy trademarks (such as those from benelux) have been used to pick up keywords. So no I dont think those with trademarks should have an automatic right to them.

The only clear winners out of this will be nominet and domainers who jump into a new goldrush and compete against each other in auctions if this happens.

I agree it will be a disaster for the small amount of domainers who are currently sitting with a large portfolio costing £x,xxx/xx,xxx to maintain but more importantly it will be an additional burden and unforseen cost to the large number of businesses big and small who will have to compete to collect the equivalent .uk and then decide whether to re brand their vehicles,logo, brochures, stationary etc. To these stakeholders it will be alot more than £20 per year.

I actually think it's an excellent proposal, especially for someone like me who only owns a few domains anyway.

I own a small number of domains for resale and 1 decent .co.uk for development. I can definately see domainer opportunitys out of this annoucement both buying .co.uk while confidence is down, and getting into gold rush situations if .uk was released. But if you are a business who currently runs on .co.uk will you actually feel .uk is needed?
Or will you actually want it? To me the answer to both questions will be no.

- Does anyone know how long it would take after consultation before .uk would be realised if it went ahead?

 

[foz]

Does anyone know how long it would take after consultation before .uk would be realised if it went ahead?

My guess, 18-24 months.

 

[arkvard]

Most of the revenue raised in the short domain auctions came from domainers, domainers that can drop half a million without blinking.

If this exercise is to extract monies (in Nominets mind) domainers are their best clients.

Of course domainers are always going to be the best clients as they just gobble up whats ever available and sit on it until someone pays the price.

With even a hint of a possible new better looking in my personal opinion .uk coming, who in their right mind is going to want to buy a premium .co.uk version now?

An if they do roll out the .uk what does the end user buy if he has the choice of the .co.uk or .uk that a domain trader has sitting in his portfolio? The trusted and respected .co.uk not knowing if its going to be top dog forever or the new kid on the block the .uk which looks better, should be cheaper to buy as it has not got any track record yet or by both to stop anyone else getting their hands on it?

 

[Simon]

The above story is my story, but by no means unique. If this proposal goes ahead, tens of thousands of users will find themselves in a similar situation, potentially much worse.

was writing my above post while you posted this, I agree completely. The 1 main .co.uk I have for development I purchased at auction in the first quarter of this year knowing it would be the premier domain in the UK industry and a one off expense then I renewed it for several years when nominet opened up registrations for longer than 2 years. If the .uk goes to an auction there is no way I could go against the industry leaders who would be interested in this.

It seems strange that nominet are so against domainers but are willing to take over the domainers role and take the money instead.

 

[arkvard]

was writing my above post while you posted this, I agree completely. The 1 main .co.uk I have for development I purchased at auction in the first quarter of this year knowing it would be the premier domain in the UK industry and a one off expense then I renewed it for several years when nominet opened up registrations for longer than 2 years. If the .uk goes to an auction there is no way I could go against the industry leaders who would be interested in this.

It seems strange that nominet are so against domainers but are willing to take over the domainers role and take the money instead.

From the Nominet FAQs if you have the .co.uk and have a developed website you will be offered the .uk 1st, as long as there is no TM on the name.

 

[ratboy]

From the Nominet FAQs if you have the .co.uk and have a developed website you will be offered the .uk 1st, as long as there is no TM on the name.

Which is why some people have reported seeing Nominet IP visiting their sites. I'd presume a screenshot of the site before the announcement, to back up any claim for the .uk version.

 

[arkvard]

Which is why some people have reported seeing Nominet IP visiting their sites. I'd presume a screenshot of the site before the announcement, to back up any claim for the .uk version.

So for them to be doing that already they must be rolling it out sooner than everyone thinks..

 

[ratboy]

So for them to be doing that already they must be rolling it out sooner than everyone thinks..

Just a rumour! But would make sense.

 

[anthony]

Which is why some people have reported seeing Nominet IP visiting their sites. I'd presume a screenshot of the site before the announcement, to back up any claim for the .uk version.

Of course it is, one of the best comments in the thread. As I have alluded to, this has been in the pot for some time, Nominet already consider the proposal 'in the bag' for sure!

 

[Bailey]

Just playing out scenarios in my head: Playing devils advocate - If you like

1. Lets not forget A name a term etc can be (and often is ) trademarked in several classes by different entities. I love to see Nominet deal with this one without being/ been seen to be biased..(or playing domainer at the auction)

2. A domainer (small developments but mostly income generating parking) for ever reason dosen't get or can't get the .uk. (not seen as a bonafide-business) was quite happy with all the related searches for relevant terms etc.
Now he decides - what the heck - Porn pays better.

New .UK owner. What the f**K - half my customers keep complaining (due to uk/co.uk typo) I've been hijacked by a porn site.

3.New (Nominet decided bonafide business) secures his new .UK - .co.uk owner (past ten years No TM) now decides quite legit to play rough and ready with the/any traffic

The references to Japans JP and Chinas CN (and subsequent switch to top tier domains) don't really hold quite the example that might happen in a European Nation that some suggest. The nature of their Citizenship and govenments - has a damn larger sway than may subsequently develop in the UK name space.

I don't want to see the .uk - but I can imagine the fun and games that may be had by some unscrupulous people - if it does.

I think the UK namespace in real danger of collapsing as a trustworthy entity - Sure in 3 to 5 years it would probably have settled down. But 3-5 years is a long-long time in internet years

 

[grantw]

From the Nominet FAQs if you have the .co.uk and have a developed website you will be offered the .uk 1st, as long as there is no TM on the name.

Where exactly does it say that? The second phase is for registered/unregistered rights which as well as existing .co.uk, org.uk and .me.uk owners also includes the owners of registered company names, unregistered trademarks etc. All of whom will have to bid on the domain if there's more than one applicant.

Can you copy/paste in where it says .co.uk registrant will be offered the .uk please?

Grant

 

[arkvard]

Where exactly does it say that? The second phase is for registered/unregistered rights which as well as existing .co.uk, org.uk and .me.uk owners also includes the owners of registered company names, unregistered trademarks etc. All of whom will have to bid on the domain if there's more than one applicant.

Can you copy/paste in where it says .co.uk registrant will be offered the .uk please?

Grant

Here you go Grant:

"Q Why wouldn't you just let everyone with a .co.uk have automatic rights to the .uk?

A The proposals we have outlined acknowledge that existing registrants with domain names registered in the third level may have an unregistered right provided evidence of use could be shown prior to a qualifying date. We also believe that it is appropriate to recognise trademark holders as having prior rights to registering a domain, followed by those with unregistered rights. Our current rules provide that a registrant does not have any rights in any words within a .uk domain, and that Nominet does not authorise registrants to use the domain name as part of a business. However, as part of the registered rights phase of sunrise, we would generally accept evidence of use as a valid unregistered right. We believe this approach fits with a digital economy where innovation and intellectual property are championed and to supporting existing registrants who might want to take up such a new service."

Mark

 

[grantw]

Here you go Grant:

"Q Why wouldn't you just let everyone with a .co.uk have automatic rights to the .uk?

A The proposals we have outlined acknowledge that existing registrants with domain names registered in the third level may have an unregistered right provided evidence of use could be shown prior to a qualifying date. We also believe that it is appropriate to recognise trademark holders as having prior rights to registering a domain, followed by those with unregistered rights. Our current rules provide that a registrant does not have any rights in any words within a .uk domain, and that Nominet does not authorise registrants to use the domain name as part of a business. However, as part of the registered rights phase of sunrise, we would generally accept evidence of use as a valid unregistered right. We believe this approach fits with a digital economy where innovation and intellectual property are championed and to supporting existing registrants who might want to take up such a new service."

Mark

Yep, so it doesn't say it at all, .co.uk owners will be lumped in with everyone else in phase 2 along with .org.uk and .me.uk, registered company name holders etc etc - Nominet have generously acknowledged that owning/using an existing extension 'may' qualify as an unregistered right to that term!

Grant

 

[mojoco]

Here you go Grant:

"Q Why wouldn't you just let everyone with a .co.uk have automatic rights to the .uk?

A The proposals we have outlined acknowledge that existing registrants with domain names registered in the third level may have an unregistered right provided evidence of use could be shown prior to a qualifying date. We also believe that it is appropriate to recognise trademark holders as having prior rights to registering a domain, followed by those with unregistered rights. Our current rules provide that a registrant does not have any rights in any words within a .uk domain, and that Nominet does not authorise registrants to use the domain name as part of a business. However, as part of the registered rights phase of sunrise, we would generally accept evidence of use as a valid unregistered right. We believe this approach fits with a digital economy where innovation and intellectual property are championed and to supporting existing registrants who might want to take up such a new service."

Mark

"Our current rules provide that a registrant does not have any rights in any words within a .uk domain, and that Nominet does not authorise registrants to use the domain name as part of a business."

What planet are they on ?

 

[Bailey]

The other thing I can't quite get my head around. If Nominet are really concerned about bringing out a new .UK namespace for a more secure experience. Why not just bring out

.secure.uk or any other 'suffix acronym' it deems suitable. Now you really could say your looking after all users.of the UK space - and with a far easier justification.