20i Domains

Who's Holding BTC?

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by Hay, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Adam H

    Adam H Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

    Joined:
    May 2014
    Posts:
    1,657
    Likes Received:
    240
    Haha, indeed the crypto stuff is certainly something I need to brush up on, normally anything technical that also involves making money im all over it, but I have to admit I havent got a clue where to start with it. Only dealings ive had with Crypto is CFD trading of Crypto instead of holding the real thing :D

    When clients start asking to use something with sigificant values its starts to become hard to ignore.
     
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

    Joined:
    1999
    Messages:
    Many
    Likes Received:
    Lots
    articles.co.uk
     
  3. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    The safest way to hold Bitcoin is on a Ledger or Trezor (only buy from them direct, make sure unit is sealed). It is a USB style device with a UI for transactions, but losing it isn't a problem, the problem is if you lose the seed phrase/key which is essentially the key to access the wallet, no matter which provider you use (they are interchangeable).

    Others have recommended alternatives for ease that you can run from your mobile phone but still provide you with a seed phrase (typically 12 or 24 words). Keep that, write it down, store safely.

    Electrum is good for Bitcoin from a computer (but complex), there are others like blockchain.com, exodus etc for mobile.

    Rule of thumb, "Not your keys, not your Bitcoin", which references just holding funds on an exchange; an absolute no unless day trading.

    You might want a wallet for Ethereum too, which also covers a large number of ERC-20 tokens. Without doubt the easiest to use is Metamask, and might be a good starting point to get use to how it all works (doesn't work for Bitcoin).

    You have to be extremely careful when transferring funds between addresses; get anything wrong and the funds are gone for good. Always copy the address, never duplicate it, and triple check it always. Always recommend you send a small amount first to check it works, and monitor 'gas' fees (what you pay the miner to process your transaction) as they can be high at times, but equally you can set them too low that it takes an age for funds to move.

    Best places to buy/invest in Bitcoin and others would be Coinbase, or Kraken. KYC will be needed to deposit/withdraw fiat, which is why I've mentioned only those two.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  4. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2018
    Posts:
    1,721
    Likes Received:
    219
    Only thing that has held me off from purchasing into Bitcoin, was the fact that I'm bitter as hell about missing such a good opportunity :D but more importably it's the complexity of it. We've all heard the horror stories about the "would be" millionaires who lost their hard drive, or accidentally wiped out their wallet lol. Jesus. I'm just glad I'm not one of them. I mean, how would you go about your life knowing that you had £50 of Bitcoins on a hard drive somewhere since 2009 :D:D:D:D

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/man...h-of-bitcoins-and-city-wont-let-him-look.html

    RIP to that guy.

    Love hearing about the success stories though. What a life.
     
  5. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

    Joined:
    May 2013
    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Yeah... thats a peach of a story. Poor guy.

    Ive moaned about this before, but i had set up to mine in about 2010, got red herringued by work and just never got back to it. Never pressed go. What a muppet with 20/20 hindsight etc
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    That's a different scenario though. That's a tech savy person, looking at Bitcoin in a 'tech persons' point of view, and not having kept up with how the industry has changed.

    The 'average person' hasn't needed to buy a USB stick for many, many years. It's only the 'hardcore' and 'devoted' bitcoiners that use physical USB wallets etc.

    The 'average person' use services like Coinbase etc. Paypal isn't going to bring anything new that a company like Coinbase doesn't already (apart from brand recognition and trust.)

    Adam doesn't look at bitcoin like an 'average person' does. The average person can signup and have bitcoin in a digital account (exactly like it would be on Paypal) using their debit card already.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    11,013
    Likes Received:
    387
    I agree, it would be hard to get your head straight again. I don't know how you'd live with it. Strange how he never kept a copy of the seed phrase. Terrible article BTW...bitcoins dont live on the device only the private keys do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    The average person doesn't use anything at all, which is why PP could be a quick easy gateway into 'just buying a bit' and storing it on their system so no technical knowledge required.

    Coinbase has 35 million customers who know a little about crypto. PP has 286 million customers, many of them don't know what Bitcoin is, that is the market.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    11,013
    Likes Received:
    387
    Yep, our man Trauniner doesn't get it. If you've ever been through KYC, holding your Passport next to your face on a webcam, done an online interview, tried to use localbitcoins etc you'd understand. Most people haven't heard of coinbase, they have Paypal. Hundreds of millions even have an account, they can simply sign in and buy crypto. Game changer for those interested who have never found the time to understand crypto or learn how to buy it and who from.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    That's a different issue alltogether.

    The average person doesn't use Bitcoin because they have literally no reason to. Why do you think that will change when they can use Paypal to buy it?

    To me, it's just this constant problem with BTC holders, where they chase dreams and reason of what will cause them to get rich.

    Bitcoins problem on grabbing the 'average person' market, isn't access; it's what use and value it provides.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    KYC is required on Paypal. You are not going to be able to buy BTC through Paypal without proving your identity. Paypal requires proof of identity (Passport/driving license) etc when you start moving funds.

    The whole localbitcoins thing, having an interview is not what the process is like for the average person buying BTC anymore. Hasn't been for a long time.

    You're looking at things from an early adopters point of view and completely blinded by the realities of buying BTC in 2020. (For an average person)

    Your knowledge is making you blind here.
     
  12. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    4,204
    Likes Received:
    401
    When the general public hear someone bought bitcoin for $4000 in March and it went to $25,000 in a year or two they will flock to it to invest

    They will probably be getting in on the end when it's spiking, get spanked in the short term and sell at a loss out of fear but that's bubbles
     
  13. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    11,013
    Likes Received:
    387
    @Trauiner - OK you want to be right and need to be right so you are right. See ya...I'm off to spend some bitcoin!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  14. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    Just seems that early adopter BTC holders are always chasing the next "thing" that is going to cause massive profits, despite the last 10 things not causing it.

    It's not about being right. Infact, I hope I'm wrong as I'll make a lot of money.
     
  15. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    Same can be said for gold, yet millions invest in that with no intention of spending it. PP is an immeasurable opportunity for those with little knowledge to buy some, rather than a vehicle of payment (which I've never subscribed to personally).

    I'm not chasing dreams but was at the start of my journey. No different for anyone starting today.
     
  16. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    They've been hearing that for ever and most people think it's a scam or something; as they don't understand it properly.

    I feel that if we did have a massive price rise and massive adoption from the general population in a fast manner, Paypal would be in a very bad situation.

    If it does cause a massive bubble, it's going to leave BTC in a very bad place and the average user put off for life. This large bubble BTC holders are holding out for, could be the very thing that ruins BTC from ever being mass adopted.

    Of course, that will not matter to BTC holders who pull out at the right time.
     
  17. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    You are invested despite your alternative view?
     
  18. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    That could be said since 2009, massive bubbles, huge 90% drops, yet it keeps growing.
     
  19. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Posts:
    4,204
    Likes Received:
    401
    That's why paypal adopting it is big, trust and lower barrier to entry

    Trust+lower barrier to entry+fear+greed = $$$$$$$$$$ bitcoin
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2016
    Posts:
    593
    Likes Received:
    62
    I've traded a few million pounds in trading volume of BTC (not profit of course, just volume), so I'm invested in that way.

    I still hold quite a decent amount of BTC but my only alternative view is that Paypal will not be the gamechanger for BTC, that people think it will be.

    The average user still needs to understand what BTC is and what value it provides them; which at present isn't much apart from a potential get rich quick scheme. (Which we know how that always ends up.)
     
  21. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    292
    I agree with the point that PP isn't the silver bullet, but anything that brings potential greater understanding and adoption to the masses can't be seen as anything but a positive. There is no bigger platform out there to offer this as an option to the 'average' person; but it isn't going to be what shifts the market, institutional buy in will, and has been the cause of recent highs.

    Bitcoin is still at the beginning of a long journey and despite the price fluctuations, has been much less volatile than gold, stocks, etc, in their infancy. We might look back on today thinking Bitcoin is expensive to buy right now, but might actually have been a bargain at this valuation. From what you've said though, you appear to trade it, rather than invest in it, so expect that might be why you don't view it in the same way; I see it as a long term investment.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1