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Who's Holding BTC?

Discussion in 'The Bar' started by Hay, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    The value of anything is supply vs demand

    We are all entitled to think something is precious or worthless but our opinion wont change what it's being exchanged for

    People in countries like Turkey and Venezuela have experienced severe inflation in their own currencies and seem to appreciate having Bitcoin as an option to store wealth; they might have preferred something more traditional like gold but I imagine in a crisis physical gold is hard to get hold of

    Bitcoin unlike other traditional virtual assets can't be frozen and is more difficult to confiscate by the state, perfect in a time of fear
     
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  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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  3. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    That's one of those catch 22 scenarios though. With wider adoption, will come tighter regulations/laws which will change how you can use BTC and the dynamics of it all. BTC will become easier to confiscate in general; although maybe not as much for the technically minded.

    Even if it was impossible to confiscate, that's largely irrelevant, as the side effects still exist.

    If you commit a crime in the UK, have it all in BTC, and refuse to 'hand over the keys' as you know it's impossible for them to get unless you do, you're going to prison for that. I can only see the prison terms getting stricter and longer for those situations too.
     
  4. Murray

    Murray Well-Known Member

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    With centralised banking governments can change and impose new laws very easily

    If they wanted to confiscate gold or bitcoin to enforce that is a totally different animal
     
  5. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    It bemused me that Bitcoin it considered the villain by some, yet are happy with governments stealing money from you. I subscribe to the freedom Bitcoin has from this regime.

    Each to their own opinion though, I respect them; I'm in it for the long term gains and consider BTC to have a far reaching road ahead.
     
  6. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    What freedom does Bitcoin offer compared to cash? (Freedoms that will not likely change with regulation, I should add.)
     
  7. ian

    ian Well-Known Member

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    Freedom from inflation and deflation for a start; you can't just print more. Regulations can only force a direction to an extent; I think world governments have by now realised that Bitcoin cannot be stopped.
     
  8. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    That's the thing though, more BTC can be created. The 21 million cap is only based on the current ideology of BTC.

    It can be changed if there's ever a need/reason to and enough people say yes to it. More BTC can be printed, so it's not free from inflation/deflation.

    For the regulation side of things, BTC can't be 'stopped' but for the average person, it's eventually going to be like anything else they hold as investment, or use as a currency. Heavily regulated. People do need to realise that if BTC is to become mainstream, it's going to be a different landscape in 10-20 years time, unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  9. lazarus

    lazarus Well-Known Member Exclusive Member

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    No holder of Bitcoin is ever going to agree to that and the more you hold the more you disagree.
    It's the Turkey voting for Christmas thing. And there is no logical reason for a need to create more.

    It's true that people are uncomfortable with China hosting 65% of the hashing power. But it would still would be an impossible task for the Chinese government to organise a 51% attack as so many miners are operating illegally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  10. Highway

    Highway Member Exclusive Member

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    Anything that *can* be regulated through the application of KYC / AML rules is doomed long term. That's not really much of an opinion, it's just factual. Gold is truly fungible, and unfortunately, Bitcoin is not. And no, I'm not at all interested in gold, other than as an accessory.
     
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  11. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    This is where the 'masses' may change the ideology of BTC.

    No holder of BTC who understands BTC, is going to agree to that, you're correct.

    What happens when you have 4-5 companies like Paypal, all with hundreds of millions of 'general public' user wallets under their control, starts to decide they want to act 'on behalf' of their customers; to do what's best for them? Water starts to get mucky then.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  12. Highway

    Highway Member Exclusive Member

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    How exactly do you think that the Silk Road bitcoins got chased down by the feds? BTC's ledger is like dinosaur footprints. BTC is going to have to go legit in order to be paypal etc friendly... can you imagine a dark web user trading their BTC through paypal and not worrying about a knock on the door in however many years? Bitmex got raided recently and Arthur Hayes might never get out of prison once the thing is done ;) And that was supposed to be a legit CEX
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  13. Trauiner United Kingdom

    Trauiner Active Member

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    Which if something is going to be institutional and available to everyone; always will be.

    Gold isn't necessarily safe though! Depends on what's out in space... :D
     
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  14. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    I think there is still tremendous upside potential to Bitcoin in the short to medium term, but the problem is Governments are now strongly looking at their own digital currencies. Take China, they have already rolled out their own digital currency in four major cites and are going to use it the Beijing olympics in 2022.

    China has a very strict regime they're not going to be happy about people taking money out of the system into cryptos, they could easily make the use of Bitcoin illegal in the future.

    Once Governments around the world all begin to adopt their own digital currency I see this as a big problem as they won't want Bitcoin as competition and it could become illegal. I expect the Bitcoin lovers to strongly disagree :) but its valid problem right around the corner for today's cryptos, ignore and carry on with a utopian Bitcoin world vision at your peril..
     
  15. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    I don't think the common thinking is that it will replace currency. It's not nearly nimble enough, and transaction fees can be high. But as the original, and most trusted (well.... known at least ) crypto, its becoming a store of wealth, similar to a phsyical store of wealth such as gold or silver etc.
     
  16. JMI

    JMI Active Member Acorn Supporter

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    You must be kidding right? The people don't get a say in this, one dream of all governments is to kill "cash" and turn everything digital. By doing so overnight they can tax, monitor and control of 99% of the population, how else are they going to get out of this endless money printing mess compounded with 0% interest rates until the cows come home.
     
  17. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought a store for wealth would have to have some guarantee that it could not reduce to zero by someone else removing your money in the future. If you put your wealth in at 18000 and a year later it was 3000 that's a big hit to take , why would anyone want to put hard earned legally made money into such a scheme for any other reason than to make enormous profits with predictions of a price of 500,000 in the future.
     
  18. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Im saying I doubt bitcoin will end up being the common currency. I think we're rapidly heading towards a cashless society and agree 100% with what you say. Bitcoin is no where near the right thing though to fill that gap. As you say... government will roll their own
     
  19. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Agreed, and im one of the people looking for a payout. People are buying it though and starting to keep it.
     
  20. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    Any idea if it has to work within the money laundering laws ?
     
  21. dee

    dee Well-Known Member Acorn Supporter

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    Certainly the main exchanges do, so theres traceability at point of access for most people.

    EDIT. I think it's also a myth that its untraceable. Governments are already doing it using companies like elliptic and chainanalysis. By definition, every transaction is 100% trackable, so even bouncing around wallets etc is just number crunching and tieing in details. At some point there has to be an entry and exit which they can find. I think it got its reputation and initial kickstart by things like silkroad where it was used anonymously to buy drugs etc, but the powers that be are well on it by now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020