His reason/ motivation is profit and publicity. Anyone who needs trainers for exercise will already have several pairs, others should shop online. Chances are, authorities and public opinion will educate him.
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Corona please read very important
- Thread starter dougs
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His reason/ motivation is profit and publicity. Anyone who needs trainers for exercise will already have several pairs, others should shop online. Chances are, authorities and public opinion will educate him.
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We have a different testing strategy - we only test when people are very ill, other countries have undertaken lots more general testing so the death rate will be skewed for the UK.
I have not seen any restrictions for online retailers. This allows most goods to still be available, with a much safer (social distance) means of delivery. It is far easier for an employer to manage SD protocols in a warehouse, than deal with customers in a shop.
This is a very good point.
The deaths to numbers tested ratio is dependent on how many tests a country does (in the UK at present, far too few).
Say only 1 person had been tested. Then our death rate at present would be about 33000.0% and people could imply from the figure that people would die 330 times every time anyone caught the virus.
On the other hand, if we'd been amazing with testing and already tested a million people, then the figure would be 0.03% and some people might imply hardly anyone who catches it will die.
The tested/deaths ratio is spurious, because the testing figure is arbitrary.
The death numbers are fixed, the testing number is variable.
Statement on BBC from Gove says: "Deliveries of "non-essential" goods such as toys and clothes can continue"
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They've said online businesses can remain open. I guess it is a half way house, ensuring online retailers have measures in place that otherwise might get ignored by members of the public going to the shops.
YOU ARE IN QUEUE POSITION 35,691
So - Boris wants us to get food delivered if we can.
Tesco - no delivery slots. Waitrose - no delivery slots.
Ocado - a queue of 35,691 people trying to access the page, with the warning that this is probably only useful for people wanting to amend delivery orders they have already made.
WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?
Otherwise Boris's suggestion is simply not possible for most people.
So - Boris wants us to get food delivered if we can.
Tesco - no delivery slots. Waitrose - no delivery slots.
Ocado - a queue of 35,691 people trying to access the page, with the warning that this is probably only useful for people wanting to amend delivery orders they have already made.
WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?
Otherwise Boris's suggestion is simply not possible for most people.
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I think this will inevitably happen, just at the right time when it's absolutely necessary.
Doing it too early, too much at once, could really panic people, things could get out of hand.
As a government you don't want to create a social unrest problem on top of this.
There's been an obvious pattern of small incremental steps and new information given – probably not by coincidence.
This is now beyond control and definitely beyond our individual control – take what you're given, do what you're told.
We're in damage control mode and no obvious end in sight so need to not exhaust all options too early.
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Just employ all the young healthy people with their own vehicles sat at home to deliver shopping to anyone who qualifies for a flu jab at least
YOU ARE IN QUEUE POSITION 35,691
So - Boris wants us to get food delivered if we can.
Tesco - no delivery slots. Waitrose - no delivery slots.
Ocado - a queue of 35,691 people trying to access the page, with the warning that this is probably only useful for people wanting to amend delivery orders they have already made.
WHY NOT BRING IN THE ARMY'S TRUCKS, LORRIES, MANPOWER?
Otherwise Boris's suggestion is simply not possible for most people.
I don't think anyone is starving already.
In the mid 70s the dead could not be buried, rubbish was not collected, petrol was rationed, candles were used during power cuts. People need to grow up and bite the bullet, stop complaining and let government govern. Thank god this is not a nuclear attack or a collision with a comet. We will come through this, we need to just keep ourselves and family alive so they can come out the other side.
I agree with Webber that the Government have planned incremental steps, to try to 'carry' people with them, but they still haven't got a handle on a number of things, and need to tighten up and be more precise and enforcing NOW.
People are ignoring the instruction about social distancing and the London Underground and its use, because no authority is checking up on whether they have a right to be on those trains or not.
In the London context at least, where the virus is starting to rage, everyone who needs to travel should be asked to produce permits at the entry and exit points. This could be done through essential workers being given permits, and frankly, I don't regard construction as absolutely essential at this moment, and if you're fit and well enough to work on a construction site, you're fit and well enough to cycle to work (if we really think construction is so absolutely a priority, which in most cases I don't at this time).
There's still - in practical terms - no enforcement going on. People can still more or less do what they want and go where they want.
Take a look at the tube THIS MORNING:
Full article: here
Websaway - I agree we need to get on with how things are. I also think we are privileged compared to many countries. And I do think we need to support government because none of this is easy.
But I still think it's legit and important to air views and ideas - as I have said, I believe we need to consider army logistics to support food supply - the more people who can get their food delivered direct to the door, the fewer people are catching/spreading the virus at shops. And if the London Underground isn't policed to ENFORCE legitimate travel only, and I suggest use of travel passes to be checked at barriers, then people (as in picture above) will continue to ignore the clear rules on distancing, and that's an insult to all our health workers, adding extra cases by spreading disease, and also note in the article that a healthworker was pointing out there's more risk of her bringing infection to her workplace via travel on the underground, than the more controlled risks in the hospitals themselves.
TFL staff are rightly outraged. Once again we have a government direction that relies on people's good will. I'm afraid that's a sentimental and old-fashioned vision of Britain in the 1940's. In this country today, there are more people who (through desperation for income, or lacking responsibility to others) don't operate on good will. They operate on 'I'll do what I want' or 'what I have to do'.
It's important to view things with balance, and I know how many really decent people there are. They hardly even need to be enforced. They are not the problem. Nevertheless, on the London Underground yesterday, and again today, it's all just drifting along with words on TV. Like with 'order deliveries', there is no implementation or enforcement. The government are trying, but people on the front line are still the ones stating the realities and the shortfalls (lack of PPE on some wards, nurses using binliners because they're out of aprons etc, far too few people being tested because people were slow off the mark etc).
And I still think we need a cross-party national unity approach at press conferences, because we are one nation, and party politics is transcended by our need to work together as Society and Community.
No need to panic, but an urgent need to define clearly, implement, and enforce. Failure to do so will cost many lives.
People are ignoring the instruction about social distancing and the London Underground and its use, because no authority is checking up on whether they have a right to be on those trains or not.
In the London context at least, where the virus is starting to rage, everyone who needs to travel should be asked to produce permits at the entry and exit points. This could be done through essential workers being given permits, and frankly, I don't regard construction as absolutely essential at this moment, and if you're fit and well enough to work on a construction site, you're fit and well enough to cycle to work (if we really think construction is so absolutely a priority, which in most cases I don't at this time).
There's still - in practical terms - no enforcement going on. People can still more or less do what they want and go where they want.
Take a look at the tube THIS MORNING:
Full article: here
Websaway - I agree we need to get on with how things are. I also think we are privileged compared to many countries. And I do think we need to support government because none of this is easy.
But I still think it's legit and important to air views and ideas - as I have said, I believe we need to consider army logistics to support food supply - the more people who can get their food delivered direct to the door, the fewer people are catching/spreading the virus at shops. And if the London Underground isn't policed to ENFORCE legitimate travel only, and I suggest use of travel passes to be checked at barriers, then people (as in picture above) will continue to ignore the clear rules on distancing, and that's an insult to all our health workers, adding extra cases by spreading disease, and also note in the article that a healthworker was pointing out there's more risk of her bringing infection to her workplace via travel on the underground, than the more controlled risks in the hospitals themselves.
TFL staff are rightly outraged. Once again we have a government direction that relies on people's good will. I'm afraid that's a sentimental and old-fashioned vision of Britain in the 1940's. In this country today, there are more people who (through desperation for income, or lacking responsibility to others) don't operate on good will. They operate on 'I'll do what I want' or 'what I have to do'.
It's important to view things with balance, and I know how many really decent people there are. They hardly even need to be enforced. They are not the problem. Nevertheless, on the London Underground yesterday, and again today, it's all just drifting along with words on TV. Like with 'order deliveries', there is no implementation or enforcement. The government are trying, but people on the front line are still the ones stating the realities and the shortfalls (lack of PPE on some wards, nurses using binliners because they're out of aprons etc, far too few people being tested because people were slow off the mark etc).
And I still think we need a cross-party national unity approach at press conferences, because we are one nation, and party politics is transcended by our need to work together as Society and Community.
No need to panic, but an urgent need to define clearly, implement, and enforce. Failure to do so will cost many lives.
Last edited:
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That's a very broad statement, some construction is essential, I'm aware of new hospital developments being expedited, hoping to provide new hospital space months ahead of original planning (getting to a useable state in the next week or two). Of course, most construction doesn't fall into this category, but there is some that shouldn't be forgotten about.
Very fair point about work to expedite health care facilities. What I don't think is essential is construction work on new hotels, condos for rich foreign market, and things like that. So I think a 'permit' should be required for construction sites to stay open, and only granted if - as in the good example you cited - the work is viewed as absolutely essential.
It was claimed in the BBC article this morning that there were many construction workers on the underground today. Sure, working outdoors they can probably keep safe distance, and outdoors is safer - but the risk is catching it on journeys, public transport, etc and then passing it on to others. Extra people on public transport seems to cram people closer and increase the risk of infection for everyone.
On the testing issue, on Question Time the Health Secretary said they were starting new increased testing with 25,000 tests a day to start with. When pressed on exactly when there would be 25,000 tests a day, he replied towards the end of this week. It is now Tuesday and yesterday 5,600 tests were carried out. That simply doesn't seem enough to me. He says today they have ordered millions more, to be delivered in the next days or weeks - in all probability they are weeks away. It is now almost April, and I'm left wondering why contingency planning didn't lead to stockpiling these many weeks ago, because we need them now. Nevertheless I wish him well in a very difficult and challenging job.
The most challenging jobs of all are on the frontline, and it's vital politicians give credence to the words of frontline workers with regard to testing of staff and also protective clothing.
Nurses should not be exposed to the virus as they travel to work on crammed underground trains because politicians have not got a handle on the situation. Specifically, how are they going to safeguard the nurses travelling to work, and guarantee trains are not choc-a-bloc?
It was claimed in the BBC article this morning that there were many construction workers on the underground today. Sure, working outdoors they can probably keep safe distance, and outdoors is safer - but the risk is catching it on journeys, public transport, etc and then passing it on to others. Extra people on public transport seems to cram people closer and increase the risk of infection for everyone.
On the testing issue, on Question Time the Health Secretary said they were starting new increased testing with 25,000 tests a day to start with. When pressed on exactly when there would be 25,000 tests a day, he replied towards the end of this week. It is now Tuesday and yesterday 5,600 tests were carried out. That simply doesn't seem enough to me. He says today they have ordered millions more, to be delivered in the next days or weeks - in all probability they are weeks away. It is now almost April, and I'm left wondering why contingency planning didn't lead to stockpiling these many weeks ago, because we need them now. Nevertheless I wish him well in a very difficult and challenging job.
The most challenging jobs of all are on the frontline, and it's vital politicians give credence to the words of frontline workers with regard to testing of staff and also protective clothing.
Nurses should not be exposed to the virus as they travel to work on crammed underground trains because politicians have not got a handle on the situation. Specifically, how are they going to safeguard the nurses travelling to work, and guarantee trains are not choc-a-bloc?
As a nurse, I assure you that I would *ALWAYS* treat a patient/service-user, whoever they are. I've had sex offenders on my wards, close to death and in desperate need, with police and/or prison guard, but if they're ill, my job is to give them compassionate care and kindness.
That doesn't mean I sentimentalise my views. There are too many little shits out there at present ignoring their responsibilities to others. Police today had to break up a group of 20 people having a barbecue... the day after the Prime Minister said gathering of no more than 2 people. I'm all in favour of on the spot fines, and at present (as from Thursday) that is a £30 maximum fine. I think that is far too soft.
That doesn't mean I sentimentalise my views. There are too many little shits out there at present ignoring their responsibilities to others. Police today had to break up a group of 20 people having a barbecue... the day after the Prime Minister said gathering of no more than 2 people. I'm all in favour of on the spot fines, and at present (as from Thursday) that is a £30 maximum fine. I think that is far too soft.
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.
Then why lockdown on 23 Mar 20?
Definition of HCID
In the UK, a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) is defined according to the following criteria:
I refer you back to one of the Franklin Roosevelt quotes from my last post: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way"
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.
Then why lockdown on 23 Mar 20?
Definition of HCID
In the UK, a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) is defined according to the following criteria:
- acute infectious disease
- typically has a high case-fatality rate
- may not have effective prophylaxis or treatment
- often difficult to recognise and detect rapidly
- ability to spread in the community and within healthcare settings
- requires an enhanced individual, population and system response to ensure it is managed effectively, efficiently and safely
I refer you back to one of the Franklin Roosevelt quotes from my last post: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way"
Because fewer people will die before their time.
Because it's widely regarded as the responsible thing to do.
Because although death from Covid-19 is not 'high-frequency' at the level of Ebola, elderly people and those in vulnerable categories have a clear risk of death sooner than they would otherwise die in numbers that may range between 10,000 and 500,000 (depending on whether we lock down / reduce social contact or not).
There is EVERY good reason to significantly reduce social interaction for a period of time.
It is plain compassion, not political conspiracy.
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