Corona please read very important

[Gill]

No. That's getting into a discussion of personal meaning/emotions which is a extremely hard thing to discuss when discussing figures, cure rates etc.

I appreciate in situations where the numbers/risks weren't in a family's favour, the overall statistics are rather meaningless.

It's easy to scoff when life has been kind to you. People have adverse reactions to vaccinations, some die, it's not conspiracy, it's fact.

 

[LCHappy]

It's easy to scoff when life has been kind to you. People have adverse reactions to vaccinations, some die, it's not conspiracy, it's fact.

If that is true then we all scoff at other people's victim hood every day. I dare say you do it, we all do. Some people lose family members in car accidents, we don't all stop getting into cars. We just get on with our lives, it's a numbers game. Nobody here designed the game.

 

[Gill]

If that is true then we all scoff at other people's victim hood every day. I dare say you do it, we all do. Some people lose family members in car accidents, we don't all stop getting into cars. We just get on with our lives, it's a numbers game. Nobody here designed the game.

Your point is that we mitigate risk? I agree but don't dismiss someone as a conspiracist because they question the ethics of a mass vaccination program. Vaccination is wonderful until it's your loved one that dies, vaccination is essentially Russian Roullete

 

[websaway]

As I posted back in Early March, It's beyond comprehension the fact that masks were not mass produced and distributed firstly to old and vulnerable and then to others to wear when shopping and doing necessary work. I received various replies some which were frankly ludicrous. Masks stop the person who has it spreading it and like a car seatbelt does reduce to a degree the serious risk of a particular consequence.

 

[kodak]

As I posted back in Early March, It's beyond comprehension the fact that masks were not mass produced and distributed firstly to old and vulnerable and then to others to wear when shopping and doing necessary work. I received various replies some which were frankly ludicrous. Masks stop the person who has it spreading it and like a car seatbelt does reduce to a degree the serious risk of a particular consequence.

It's because herd immunity was and still is official policy. This isn't a lockdown, shops are still open , buses are still running, and people are still going out.

IMO anyway.

 

[LCHappy]

Your point is that we mitigate risk? I agree but don't dismiss someone as a conspiracist because they question the ethics of a mass vaccination program. Vaccination is wonderful until it's your loved one that dies, vaccination is essentially Russian Roullete

Don't worry I'm not saying you are in anyway wrong. I'm just saying that a lot of what we do is question our own actions in hindsight, it's human nature. I can image that for those who have had bad issues from a vaccine, there are others who didn't go down the vaccine route and their kids caught something and had equally as bad life changing issues or worse. That must be just as heartbreaking for them.

 

[kodak]

Normally when someone is questioning the ethics of a mass vaccination program, it's because they believe it's some sort of world order, a group of people wanting to control everyone on the planet for monetary purposes or people that are actually lizard-people/aliens that are trying to control the world for unethical reasons.

A strawman if I ever saw one. Weakens the rest of your post. We need statistics in here and facts on percentage of side effects and complications.

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

I think everyone should question a vaccination that potentially will be rushed through and might not have passed all the usual testing steps and safety procedures

I wouldn't want to be in the first major batch of people having it lets just say that

 

[Gill]

"Most vaccine adverse events are minor and temporary, such as a sore arm or mild fever. These can often be controlled by taking paracetamol after vaccination. More serious adverse events occur rarely (on the order of one per thousands to one per millions of doses), and some are so rare that risk cannot be accurately assessed."

This is taken from the WHO's web site.

 

[newguy]

Your point is that we mitigate risk? I agree but don't dismiss someone as a conspiracist because they question the ethics of a mass vaccination program. Vaccination is wonderful until it's your loved one that dies, vaccination is essentially Russian Roullete

'In general', not vaccinating is much more Russian Roulette than vaccinating is. I would be wary of leaping to have any rushed out vaccine for covid-19 because there would be no history to it, so I agree with you on that front that caution should be applied. Many vaccines though are proven safe and have observably saved many millions of lives. With those, it's not having it that can be a risk. It's truly tragic when there are averse reactions, but as you say the same can happen with medications.

 

[BREWSTERS]

He also points out that Gates’s polio vaccination campaigns paralyzed 496,000 children in India between 2000 and 2017, causing his agency to be expelled from India and immediately lowering polio paralysis rates.

Other disastrous effects of Gates’s vaccinations were the autoimmune and fertility disorders that 1,200 girls suffered and the death of seven of them. They belonged to a group of 23,000 vaccinated girls from remote villages in India.

Among the resources used by Gates’s organization to enable the girls to be vaccinated were unethical practices such as pressuring girls to participate in the trial, intimidating parents, falsifying consent forms, and denying medical care to injured girls, according to the case now before the Indian Supreme Court, according to Kennedy. - from the article I linked to in my earlier post on the subject.

Vaccines - if you believe in them, go ahead and have them - it's your choice. But to force everyone to have them is fascism at it's finest.

If you've had them, you've nothing to worry about others having them surely?

 

[websaway]

The other major problem with PPE though is that the average person simply doesn't understand the level of protection it does and doesn't offer.

The amount of people I see get out of a car wearing gloves, go into the local shop and get back into the car and driving off, wearing the same gloves is unbelievable. PPE only offers protection when used correctly and that's not using it correctly. You've not actually protected yourself doing that, the gloves have become meaningless.

You see the same thing with masks, people don't realise that if you're going out and about, you need to be changing masks more than once a week. In some situations you need to be changing masks multiple times a day, depending on what you're doing.

The second you go outside the scope of how PPE should be used, you pretty much remove the integrity of the protection it offers.

In theory, PPE can actually increase the spread, when used by people that don't understand the PPE, as they feel they're protected. "Well, I've got clothes on so I can touch everything." "I can go out and about more because I'm wearing a mask, so I wont catch it."

People soon got the hang of the umbrella.
I do see your point though. Guy running the post office had a pair of rubber gloves on that were filthy, looked like gardening gloves, made me smile.

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

He also points out that Gates’s polio vaccination campaigns paralyzed 496,000 children in India between 2000 and 2017, causing his agency to be expelled from India and immediately lowering polio paralysis rates.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gates-org-kicked-out-of-india/

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/mbErel.aspx?relid=158277

"Some media reports have suggested that all health related collaboration with the Gates Foundation with National Health Mission (NHM) has been stopped. This is inaccurate and misleading. BMGF continues to collaborate and support the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare"

 

[BREWSTERS]

Snopes again?

I’ll stick with Robert Kennedy Jnr thanks - that said I have little doubt that the Indian Supreme case will for some rea$on be dropped.

 

[newguy]

Snopes again?

I’ll stick with Robert Kennedy Jnr thanks - that said I have little doubt that the Indian Supreme case will for some rea$on be dropped.

But they do have offices in India, so objectively speaking they have not been kicked out. The source stating this isn't important if they are present in the country.

Also, I feel that if you're going to spend a significant number of posts looking for an underbelly to the current situation (do these people really have coronavirus? the stats don't add up! our approach is wrong! wha'ts the motivation behind releasing a vaccine!" etc) or questioning the science, surely unsubstantiated comments from individuals should require more proof, not less. How come, when it's something you want to believe "Robert Kennedy jnr said so", or how many Youtube thumbs up something gets is somehow profoundly meaningful?

I'm all for a healthy suspicion of government, and pushback where civil liberties are genuinely threatened, but not everything that happens in the world is the result of some kind of nefarious scheme. The lock down makes sense for now, there is a rationale to it. Developing a vaccine makes sense. We're in a truly difficult spot, and the constant push that it's not really happening how we perceive it, or that we should largely carry on as normal, or be inherently suspicious of efforts to develop a vaccine might not be the most helpful advice during a global pandemic.

 

[starbird]

"Most vaccine adverse events are minor and temporary, such as a sore arm or mild fever. These can often be controlled by taking paracetamol after vaccination. More serious adverse events occur rarely (on the order of one per thousands to one per millions of doses), and some are so rare that risk cannot be accurately assessed."

This is taken from the WHO's web site.

And you believe the W.H.O who tweeted in January this virus doesn't spread human to human (nothing to do with China buying it off I'm sure). Like FIFA, like all large organisations, it is corrupt. None can be trusted. It's perfectly possible China bought the W.H.O off in order to level the playing field globally, don't think China would do that, think again. Put another way I'd believe anything from the W.H.O as much as I believe only 3.5k people died from the virus in China.

China will eventually be an outcast once the dust settles from this, even allies like Russia will likely not be too friendly. What will happen is countries will start producing goods normally imported from China to restart their economies (and ensure supply). Trump is considering stopping US funding to the W.H.O.

I'd say a vaccine will be available before the end of the year. I cannot see it being mandatory in the UK but be assured plenty will flock to get it and rest will basically be shielded by the majority.

 

[newguy]

China will eventually be an outcast once the dust settles from this, even allies like Russia will likely not be too friendly. What will happen is countries will start producing goods normally imported from China to restart their economies (and ensure supply). Trump is considering stopping US funding to the W.H.O.

I'd say a vaccine will be available before the end of the year. I cannot see it being mandatory in the UK but be assured plenty will flock to get it and rest will basically be shielded by the majority.

I think that's about right. If it's developed it should be an option, a choice. I understand why some would be wary of being at the front of the queue, whereas others in more at risks groups would probably be well advised to go for it.

As for China, yes, these wet markets simply should not be happening. Aside from the cruelty that's on display, they are bringing caged animals together in combinations that make it akin to a scientific experiment. It's the perfect breeding ground for viruses to leap from one species to another, and then the rest of the world end up having to deal with the consequences.

 

[BREWSTERS]

I can understand pulling on snopes but where is the evidence of this happening, or is it another passage of text you've copy/pasted without doing an ounce of research on?

And you question and research the validity of the MSM do you?

I've been looking into vaccines for nearly 20 years. My eldest boy, who's 21, has severe autism and learning difficulties. He was diagnosed at 2yo which is very young to get a diagnosis (parents have to fight to get a diagnosis in many cases).

Now, I don't believe that vaccines 'caused' his autism...I can't say they didn't contribute, but I don't blame them in his case. But...my ex and I started a charity about 12 years ago to provide events tailored for families of people with autism. She still runs it and it has grown over the years.

Through that we met a lot of parents who state categorically that following the mmr vaccine, their child changed within hours.

Dr Wakefield was vilified at the time for saying there was a connection. Since then the US gov has paid out tens or maybe now hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation to people damaged by the mmr shot. That doesn't get a lot of coverage in the MSM.

 

[BREWSTERS]

That's one of the biggest issues for me. There is no hunt for evidence, just a hunt for anything that agrees with their thinking. "Don't quote snopes! That's embarrassing. However, this video has thousands of dislikes which shows you something meaningful."

I've got no problem with someone having an opinion or thought that differs to mine, as that's a healthy discussion. It's the not digging into things to find information. I don't trust X because he goes against what I'm saying but I trust Y because he agrees with me" - That's dangerous.

I can say exactly the same for you.

But in my case, I know what I've done to confirm my suspicions.

Are you willing to state a 'fact' about covid-19? That way we can assess how much research you've put into verifying it?

 

[MurrayMurray is verified member.]

Snopes again?

I’ll stick with Robert Kennedy Jnr thanks - that said I have little doubt that the Indian Supreme case will for some rea$on be dropped.

It has a link to a indian government site and I quoted from the Indian government?