.UK Announced

[GreyWing]

I have sent an email to Nominet to ask for clarification, as in a previous conversation although they have stated the intention is to supply a summary only but when pushed on it, I recall them stating they would look at the possiblity but not sure if they were just being helpful or if it would be seriously considered.

It was mentioned about withholding contact details of the respondants.

Anyway have asked Nominet for clarification and will post when I receive a response.

Rgds
Stephen

They do state they are sticking to cabinet office best practice with regards the publishing of consultation. When I pointed out to them that Cabinet office best practice also includes the freedom of information act, I kind of got no response to why they weren't following that aspect of best practice.

To give you my thoughts, I think we should all hold off on the EGM until the final proposals are finalised and if not in line with the feedback from these consultations and meetings then I think that would be the best time to call one.

An EGM takes around 28 days to invoke so I don't think they would get everything set up and out there before those 28 days are up.

The EGM thing is down to the collective group, we have the numbers quite easily as it was only 5% not 10% as I originally thought. Anyone with thoughts on that let me know, but my recommendation would be to hold off at the moment.

 

[Stephen]

Egm?

An EGM takes around 28 days to invoke so I don't think they would get everything set up and out there before those 28 days are up.

But the EGM thing is down to the collective group, we have the numbers quite easily as it was only 5% not 10% as I originally thought. But anyone with thoughts on that let me know, but my recommendation would be to hold off at the moment.

I agree to holding off, as I believe they will need to add extra time for further consulation after they publish their next proposal / conclusion as I do not believe it will match the current proposal. In that extra time extension their will be time to act using an EGM if necessary.

 

[ANY-Web]

I agree to holding off, as I believe they will need to add extra time for further consulation after they publish their next proposal / conclusion as I do not believe it will match the current proposal. In that extra time extension their will be time to act using an EGM if necessary.

Greywing & Stephen:
Good to see you today. I agree with your analysis about the consultation. You should hold off with an EGM until Nominet publishes firm plans about how to deal with the .UK space in the face of the coming gTLD world.

I got the impression today that the Nominet people (who are all very nice and likeable individually) were surprised at the backlash that their .UK consultation provoked.

Imagine them, poor things. There they are on the tailwind of a highly successful 1&2 letter auction, which used the exact same release mechanism as they are now proposing for the release of .UK names.
The 1&2 letter auction was announced, the process was scrutinized on Acorn, deemed expensive but fair, and attracted (to my recollection) hardly any dissenting views from domainers other than intense curiosity and analysis of prices achieved.
It raised £3m+ and everybody congratulated Nominet on having handled the release of the 1+2 letter domains sensitively. Rightly so. It was a class act in diplomacy and in getting it right first time.

So Nominet must be forgiven for thinking that they could apply the same release mechanism to opening up the .UK space - after all, in their eyes, it was a "new" space too and their "release rules" had been accepted by the market place.
And then imagine their surprise as all hell breaks loose and they find out the hard way that people perceive .UK as an "existing" space.
The howls of shock, disbelief, anger, and sense of betrayal of the domain holders instantly made news worldwide.
People set up campaign websites, took time to research companies who will be affected, vented their anger and disbelief in forums, wrote long papers and proposals, started contacting their MP and work together (domainers agreeing on things? - whatever next????!!! - I found myself agreeing with Hazel Pegg today - we were both laughing about it and found it amusing).
The message from everybody was: DON'T DO IT!!!

I found myself discussing the .UK proposals with a friend from the charity sector tonight, whose immediate reaction was: "So we are forced to buy the .UK name then? At extra cost, which goes to a charity? As a charity we would rather have the money ourselves, thank you very much." (note: the "forced" was her interpretation of ".uk alongside .co.uk")
Perceptions, perceptions. They will be Nominet's Achilles heal.

I think that as domain investors and domain developers we have probably done enough by engaging in this three day consultation this week. We have made Nominet aware of the perceptions of people and the long-term legal repercussions of releasing .UK in its current shape.

The people present today urged Nominet to send an email to its registrant database and canvass their thoughts.
When you think about it, the domain portfolio holders actually have a lot to lose with this suggestion. After all, if a large majority of the 3m+ registrants come back and love the Nominet proposals then we as portfolio holders need to take this on board. We need to know what the businesses, charities and individuals affected by this proposal think
It is my firm opinion that most registrants will see the proposals as
- an internet tax
- not necessary
- a burden on their business (think shop signs, van signage, brochures)
- a source of confusion

But it is possible, just possible, that all of us on this forum might have got it wrong and that small businesses want .uk names alongside .co.uk
names and are prepared to put up with the associated rebranding costs. We need to keep pushing Nominet to ask its customers how they feel about all of this.

So I urge everyone to:
- Submit your consultation document to Nominet
- Encourage small business owners and friends to do likewise (we can only learn from this process)
- Keep the discussions on this forum constructive
- Assume that Nominet is genuinely interested in hearing our views
- Help Nominet navigate the threat of the the coming gTLD world with our support and ideas for a fair and trusted .UK space.

(A note to "Invincible": It was good to talk to you today and meet you.
Glad we had a chat - you have very constructive ideas, apart from the one that says I should post more often on the forum and not be a lurker. I hope you are happy now! - look at this long post. All your fault. ) A.

 

[websaway]

Angie, Edwin, Stephen and the others that have taken the time to offer an insight into the meetings held over the last couple of days, thank you. I live abroad and couldn't make it to London and it's been very helpful to read well written and balanced accounts of what was said together with your own perceptions.

The staff at Nominet are among the most professional and customer centric that I've experienced and I hope I don't sound too cynical when I say that the same came can't be said for chief executive, Lesley Cowley, who in my opinion has demonstrated a propensity to deception, self-interest and even megalomania and I think we drop our guard at our peril.

good cop bad cop.

 

[anthony]

...The staff at Nominet are among the most professional and customer centric that I've experienced and I hope I don't sound too cynical when I say that the same came can't be said for chief executive, Lesley Cowley, who in my opinion has demonstrated a propensity to deception, self-interest and even megalomania and I think we drop our guard at our peril.

There can be no doubt that some of the Nominet staff are very committed and professional, but can that be said of them all? Real professionals wouldn't kowtow and tolerate the direction the company has been steered in over recent years, evidence the Taylor case. It's not as if many of them have shown the balls to speak out about things within the company. One would have thought there would be more whistleblowing going on, which is what comes from having a strong moral code.

 

[foz]

Definitely not all staff. Their are some real anti-domainers in that crowd.

 

[Edwin]

It is genuinely unhelpful to attempt to characterise particular staff members, because the proposal is being fronted by Nominet and it's the organisation we need to respond to. The individual (as opposed to organisational) motivations may be transparent to all concerned (and I'm sure we ALL have our opinions about them) but focusing on this rather than on the impact of what those motivations have brought about via the agency of Nominet will IMO significantly weaken our various stances.

Treating Nominet as a "black box" counters this problem without lessening in any way a potential response.

 

[addz123]

I can't help but say this after cooling off from a few weeks ago.

But can someone please ask nominet (in hindsight), how it benefits the UK webspace to have two competing and very similar domains for business? Does any other sizeable country have two competing extensions aimed for businesses?

Secondly, if nominet wants to make the UK webspace more secure, the logical development is to allow .co.uk businesses to voluntarily upgrade to .uk with the added security benefits. Again however, this lowers the value of .co.uk, so I still just can't work out how bringing out .uk in this respect would benefit a single nominet stake holder.

Even a 10 yr old could surely realise that two competing domains for UK businesses is a bad idea. The fact that they're so similar compounds the issue. How many users are going to be mis-typing brand.uk, branduk.co.uk or brand.co.uk when this is released lol.

 

[Stephen]

domainers agreeing on things? - whatever next????!!!

Angie

I agree that domainers are really doing something worthwhile for the uk namespace, which will benefit all stakeholders.

Let's hope that going forward, conseus and co-operation can be found in other constructive areas of improving the uk namespace.

Also thanks to Invincible for persuading A to give an insight, it is so welcome.

Rgds
Stephen

 

[Stephen]

I can't help but say this after cooling off from a few weeks ago.

Having now immersed myself for 2 weeks in this .uk proposal, I'm finding out more fundamental flaws every day and will continue my search to find more and point them out to Nominet.

At the beginning, I thought I just disliked the proposal out of "self interest" and I felt betrayed by Nominet that they were not looking after my interest as a registrant.

But now I'm sure that it is really a bad idea for all stakeholders and that the proposal has so many flaws and has not been thought through or introduced in the correct manner.

Rgds
Stephen

 

[foz]

It was poor judgement by the board and senior management to put .uk to consultation without having substantive data and research behind it for its need. It smacks as a whim and it has cost most of the participants a degree of stress, personal sacrifice (in time) and market impotence.

 

[GreyWing]

Nominet have got Youtube to remove the Dear MP Video

Anyone still think they are listening? Trying to stop MP's finding out about it now, not emailing 10 million users?

Starting to sound a bit fishy isn't it.

 

[anthony]

Nominet have got Youtube to remove the Dear MP Video

Anyone still think they are listening? Trying to stop MP's finding out about it now, not emailing 10 million users?

Starting to sound a bit fishy isn't it.

That should make the news! All you need now it a national to run it on their web site, cant see Nominet having the balls to take the Press on!

 

[discod]

Nice job Edwin.

Right alongside the sale of webhosting.co.uk though at $500,000. It'll be interesting to see if this sale is going to be confirmed and to whom! Doesn't look very well placed for getting the .uk version right now, by my interpretation.

it's confirmed now - http://www.elliotsblog.com/webhosting-co-uk-sells-for-half-a-million-usd-9272

 

[Stephen]

Contacting uk MP's

Nominet have got Youtube to remove the Dear MP Video

Anyone still think they are listening? Trying to stop MP's finding out about it now, not emailing 10 million users?

Starting to sound a bit fishy isn't it.

Thanks for spoting and reporting that.

In my opinion Nominet should have advised all MP's individually of their .uk proposal as part of the consulation process, as it would be "the largest change in the uk namespace" since domains became available if it went ahead!

And as the consulatation isn't finished,I think that Nominet should be encouraged to contact every uk MP now, unless they have already done so.

Rgds
Stephen

p.s. I have sent Nominet an email on this and will post response when received.

 

[Stephen]

It was poor judgement by the board and senior management to put .uk to consultation without having substantive data and research behind it for its need. It smacks as a whim and it has cost most of the participants a degree of stress, personal sacrifice (in time) and market impotence.

Foz

Totally agree.

If you can see that all the way from NZ, we should be able to get them to see it!

BW
Stephen

 

[Hazel Pegg]

I found myself agreeing with Hazel Pegg today - we were both laughing about it and found it amusing).

It was a bit of a surreal moment

 

[Hazel Pegg]

Nominet have got Youtube to remove the Dear MP Video

Really? After I went to the trouble of posting a link to it on my MP's FB page?

 

[James]

Even if .uk doesn't happen, a more convenient, more concise address system will certainly happen as part of the natural improvement of the web, eventually (soon in my opinion). I find vain hopes that such plans will be abandoned forever (and portfolios therefore protected forever) comparable in likelihood to somehow halting a hurricane with a machine constructed from two twigs and an elastic band.

I apologise if I'm missing the point

 

[ANY-Web]

Nominet have got Youtube to remove the Dear MP Video

Anyone still think they are listening? Trying to stop MP's finding out about it now, not emailing 10 million users?

Starting to sound a bit fishy isn't it.

GreyWing - I linked to the video from my website a while ago and it is still there on YouTube. I simply cannot see Nominet remove a video like that. Please give Nominet the benefit of the doubt before you go into global thermonuclear warfare mode. Send me a PM if you need the link.

And to everyone on the forum:
Can I just say that I am so against personal attacks on anyone - whether it is individuals at Nominet or domainers on the forum. PLEASE can we try to draw a line on the past and see if we can all start again?

How did they ever do it with the peace process in Northern Ireland?
So many "They killed my grandfather" - "The b....s killed some of our finest men". "5 years ago they this this...". "Remember 10 years ago when they did that...".
How did they draw a line and start to visualize what a peaceful future in Northern Ireland could look like - and BELIEVE in it?
(It is a rhetorical question - please do not debate here. I just wish we could all do the same and start over with the .UK name space).
We all remember things that went wrong in the relationship between Nominet and the members of this forum. Mistakes were made on both sides.
Let's try and put all of this aside and focus on the issue.

Until yesterday I thought that Nominet's proposal had been the answer to the question "How can we possibly in one fell swoop annoy domain holders, deprive active businesses of their digital assets or substantially add to their overheads, and generally get everybody up in arms?" - (OK, plus a few more other unprintable things, GreyWing. I was close to GTNW).
That is how I entered the Nominet consultation room on Thursday.

Maybe I was simply being disarmed by a very slick Nominet PR operation.
But it did not feel like it. I actually felt that the Nominet people genuinely did not understand the nuances of what they were proposing and why they could make themselves some very powerful legal enemies outside the domain world (see Edwin's list). I felt that they genuinely listened.

That is why I believe that the Nominet proposals as they stand will have to be amended.

But it has dawned on me that the real question Nominet might have attempted to answer with their proposal is:
How do we make sure that the .UK namespace continues to be important in an age of new gTLDs? How do we ensure that we retain customers and that we offer them a trusted .UK environment? Now that we understand as a result of the success of the 1&2 letter domain auctions that domains have value, how can we release domains so we can do worthwhile things with the Nominet Trust and make the Internet world a better place?

In other words - yes, Nominet came up with the wrong answer.
The got the process of consultation badly wrong.
But please all of us let's try to think of what could and should be changed in the .UK namespace so that
a) .UK domains retain their value
b) Nominet customers do not experience confusion about .co.uk and .uk extension for businesses
c) domains are released on expiry in a way that benefits everyone
d) Consumers are more aware of .co.uk and prefer it over all the other gTLDs
e) friendly relations are resumed with everyone.

Imagine...!
I will have to think about it all a lot more before posting again.
The simple answer is "DON'T DO IT". The harder question is:
What else could Nominet do to keep .UK attractive.
(sorry about yet another long post - it never rains but pours).