.uk .UK Announced

[retired_member27]

foz and Stephen, I totally agree.

 

[websaway]

I do agree that Nominet should contact all .uk domain owners and trademark holders as a matter of course as well as announce it in the national press.

The problem I have is the domainers on this forum who think that they should automatically get grandfather rights over trademark holders and businesses, and also the sheer self interests that are on display here, as I've said before if the people who are making the most noise didn't own any domains they wouldn't care less about the direct.uk proposal.

Do you actually think Nominet cares what domainers have to say anyway, as far as they are concerned domainers are right at the bottom of the ladder.

on your first point
Nominet are introducing it as a new product so may be saying why the need to inform anybody ( as already pointed out)

on your second point.
This issue depends on whether you think it is the introduction of a new extension or a transition from co.uk to .uk, you don't say which you believe it to be and what your view is regarding the implications for current co.uk owners.

on your third point
Of course if the people on this forum didn't own a domain, they wouldn't be on the forum and would not know or care about Nominets proposals.

on your forth point
I think Nominet do care about what domainers say, they have been Nominets bread and butter and a number are subscibing voting members, also they are the most knowledgeable on the topic, some having grown with the industry from outset.

 

[Edwin]

I can't believe you actually said that as you are one of the most biased people on this forum with your 7000 domains.

You say that, yet I have explicitly explained my "bias" both on the http://www.mydomainnames.co.uk/ website and in my proposal document.

Here's what I said in the latter (NOTE: it's a whole section by itself, not buried somewhere deep in the text):

About the Author (and Declaration of Interests)

This document was written by Edwin Hayward.

I am a director and co-owner of 2 UK Ltd companies that stand to be directly impacted by Nominet's proposal, Memorable Domains Ltd and Maps Ltd.

My involvement in the domain name industry started in 1996 when I established the world's first dedicated domain name news and information website, iGoldrush.com. I sold this website to its current owner in 2000, but I have remained active in the industry ever since.

I have presented on panels at a number of domain conferences, most notably the MeetDomainers show held in Manchester in August 2010, and the TRAFFIC ccTLD conference held in Amsterdam in June 2009. I have also exhibited at Internet World in 2008 and 2009.

On occasion, I have featured in the media on domain name issues, going back to news reports by CNET.com in 1997 , and I am referenced in "The Domain Name Game", a book by David Kesmodel.

Memorable Domains Ltd is a domain investment company that maintains a portfolio of over 7,000 generic, descriptive .co.uk domains (names such as MapleSyrup.co.uk, SearchEngine.co.uk, Comedies.co.uk and ElectricBicycles.co.uk).
More information: http://www.memorabledomains.co.uk/

Maps Ltd is focused on developing local area guides (business / tourist directories for towns and cities across the UK). Developed sites include Maps.co.uk, Cambridge.co.uk, BuryStEdmunds.co.uk, Newmarket.co.uk, Stowmarket.co.uk and others. It maintains a portfolio of over 70 geo domains for future development, including Blackpool.co.uk, Lancaster.co.uk, Kendal.co.uk, Map.co.uk and Britain.co.uk.
More information: http://www.maps.ltd.uk/

Bottom line, it's frankly pathetic to keep trying to take cheap shots at me as a substitute for producing a reasoned argument in support of .uk.

 

[markb]

Bottom line, it's frankly pathetic to keep trying to take cheap shots at me as a substitute for producing a reasoned argument in support of .uk.

I cant see any decent reasoned argument for the direct.uk proposal anywhere, that cant easily be pulled apart to show that it simply isn't true.

Can anyone post a list of genuine benefits for the direct.uk proposal here in this thread so we can see what actual benefits it will bring. I am not talking benefits for registrars or nominet. I am refering to benefits for current uk domain owners and businesses.

 

[websaway]

Where are we now ?
I think the reasoning behind why Nominets proposals are flawed and unworkable has been put forward eloquently by several highly respected people.
I think Nominet have got little chance of introducing .uk under the terms they have initially suggested.
I think it is going to be difficult for them to introduce the .uk in any form, the co.uk brand has matured and unless they can label .uk as something other than a business extension they are going to find it difficult to put together a creditable proposal and make it stack up legally and financially.
I think the damage that has been done to the uk namespace is not going to be easily repaired and Nominet will be held responsible for the long term effects of their actions.

 

[Paullas]

I think the damage that has been done to the uk namespace is not going to be easily repaired and Nominet will be held responsible for the long term effects of their actions.

This is very true.

 

[Stephen]

Nominet - no acknowldgement

...I think the damage that has been done to the uk namespace is not going to be easily repaired and Nominet will be held responsible for the long term effects of their actions.

If you go to domainlore.co.uk and look on Sedo .uk (sure they mean .co.uk) tab,
you will see the last "30 last finished" auctions section their was only 1 domain actually sold, out of the 30 .co.uk listed!

I know its December and a slow month traditionally but confidence in the UK namespace, I agree has been greatly damaged.

I have not seen anything from Nominet to acknoweledge these adverse effects caused by their .uk proposal and its handling of the situation,
and the renewal rates will not be published until March 2013 to show that it has been adversely effected in that area as well.

 

[Systreg]

If you go to domainlore.co.uk and look on Sedo .uk (sure they mean .co.uk) tab, you will see the last "30 last finished" auctions section their was only 1 domain actually sold, out of the 30 .co.uk listed!

I know its December and a slow month traditionally but confidence in the UK namespace, I agree has been greatly damaged.

I look at the Sedo sales page on Domainlore every day, it's something I've been doing for a long time, and seeing not many sales is not a new thing, it's been like that for as long as I can remember, most of the names listed every day/week are very poor, that's the reason very few of them sell.

These are the last 30 Sedo sales listed on there, if any of those were dropping tomorrow, I wouldn't be loading them, with the exception of the one that sold for £500, and I wouldn't reg any if they were even available to register now:

comparetelevisions.co.uk
passportprices.co.uk
landscapingdesigns.co.uk
antiquehinges.co.uk
teachinghistory.co.uk
dublinrestaurants.co.uk
mauritiusweather.co.uk
seaanimals.co.uk
cartridgebag.co.uk
healthcareemployment.co.uk
healthcarelaw.co.uk
parisrestaurants.co.uk
holidayincrete.co.uk
motorcyclerack.co.ukm
christmaswholesale.co.uk
maternitybenefits.co.uk
backgroundpictures.co.uk
jewelryonline.co.uk
freeav.co.uk
flightstobodrum.co.uk
weatherhistory.co.uk
internationalclock.co.uk
customersupport.co.uk - 500 GBP - sold
playmahjong.co.uk
isoftdoc.co.uk
legaladviceservices.co.uk
kommersant.co.uk
jobtree.co.uk
insurancepeople.co.uk
hotelsinprague.co.uk

 

[GreyWing]

I don't think it has been damaged by anymore than 1% compared to what it will be if they attempt to push this through. The downside of this is few know about the .uk issue to complete the consultation, it is also the saving grace. If people find out at the moment they can fill in the consultation, so not too bad. If people find out after January the 7th, then it will do huge damage.

I feel like I am at weight watchers.... I shed 120 domains in the .uk plan. I'm down to 444 now, and dropping to about 30 prime names. They think they can do without the income from the so-called secondary market then they should give it a try. They think the secondary market's portfolio's are full of valuable names. I think they need a reality check. Most of names in any portfolio I have seen are garbage and it goes for most of us. We were all paying Nom for nothing more than the fear of someone registering what we dropped as we came to our senses. When I look at names I hold, that has been my fear since moving from domainer to web developer and online business owner. Out of those 120 only 2 have since been registered and both by other people whose details I recognise.

The .uk has given me the kick up the backside to say sod it and drop it.

 

[Stephen]

These are the last 30 Sedo sales listed on there, if any of those were dropping tomorrow, I wouldn't be loading them, with the exception of the one that sold for £500, and I wouldn't reg any if they were even available to register now:

Thanks, sorry I didn't really pay much attention to the content of the list.

There are a few look quite interesting to catch but only a few! (so agree they were not likely to sell anyway).

My recollection of the Sedo list, there is usually a few more sold than 1 .co.uk but I have only glanced at it occasionally in the past.

We will have to wait for some more facts to emerge about how much the UK namespace is effected by the .uk proposal.
Wether it is secondary sales, renewal rates and reduced number of new registrations?

I see the majority of the listed .co.uk domains are all owned by Nokta Internet Teknolojileri Sanayi ve Ticaret A.S. of Turkey.

 

[Stephen]

sales on Sedo of .co.uk

I look at the Sedo sales page on Domainlore every day

I see on the bottom of your post, the link:

For Sale: Generic domain list on Sedo

Would you mind stating wether you think sales on Sedo (or elsewhere) of .co.uk domains have been effected adversley by the .uk proposal?

 

[Stephen]

Renewal rates

.... Out of those 120 only 2 have since been registered and both by other people whose details I recognise.
The .uk has given me the kick up the backside to say sod it and drop it.

Thanks. That is the confirmation that the .uk proposal has had an effect on the UK namespace, less renewals so more money for domainers, less for Nominet.

My experience is I have dropped a lot of domains (over 200 and a lot more to drop) I have been holding since 2006/2008 and not many have been taken up but those that have been registered have been by domainers.

But I have also registered 100 new .co.uk, as domain names they all still hold out the possiblility of starting them up as a seperate business, as I remain an eternal optimist/dreamer.

 

[Systreg]

Would you mind stating wether you think sales on Sedo (or elsewhere) of .co.uk domains have been effected adversley by the .uk proposal?

I couldn't really say, as I've never had many on Sedo until I added most of my domains on there recently, I've had a few sales and offers on there in the last few months though.

All I know is that when looking at Sedo sales listed on Domainlore over time, there are usually very few sales, the only time there are more sales is if a few nice names and some lll's are listed the same week, but it's mostly names like those I posted on the previous page.

 

[foz]

I have only bought one .co.uk since the direct.uk announcement. Continued to catch but in low volume runs. Even if Nominet dropped opening up the second level the poor confidence in .co.uk will stick. It will be raised again in the future so developers or investors will not be sinking four, five or six figures into a single .co.uk.

 

[Stephen]

Need a NEW Plan

..Even if Nominet dropped opening up the second level the poor confidence in .co.uk will stick. ...

I think the domainers who know about it will change there pattern of behaviour towards .co.uk for a long time, whether they had 25 or 25,000 UK domains.

Also on Acorn I can see people who were mistread by Nominet many years ago still trying to get even now, if that pattern continues, Nominet will not just be able to close the door on this and see .uk as a failed idea.

As not many people have been made aware of .uk and Nominet via recent article by Dave Thomas in The Guardian maybe be preparing the ground for a retreat, not many people will be interested and many will believe Nominet were just trying to start a debate?

But as Nominet don't have a real plan and times are changing quickly with ICANN new gTLDS's, website use, mobile technology, cybercrime/scams we may see the domainance of .co.uk being redcued in the UK namespace.

Let's hope Nominet listen this time and develop a strong strategy to combat the danager and seize the opportunities that lay ahead.

 

[markb]

I dont understand how nominet can bring a new direct.uk domain out , marketing it as being secure and trustworthy. Its basically saying, don't trust our existing uk tld domains which we have had for the past 15 or so years, they are not secure or trustworthy. Maybe even google would then ammend their algorithm to give .uk a boost over the other uk domains, this would make sense to google. People would gradually come to prefer the .uk domains other all other older uk tld domains.

If nominet are going to bring out new security features, the only way forward is to implement these on the existing uk tld's first.

 

[foz]

The security proposals are an add value proposition to command (gouge) a £20 per annum fee.

If they were just going to open up the second level, it would seem reasonable to most that the same fee as the other extensions be applied.

Nominet could introduce mail out address verifications on each account without any new extension offerings.

 

[Stephen]

Security Flaws

The security proposals are an add value proposition to command (gouge) a £20 per annum fee....

Nominet has paniced about the new ICANN gTLD's coming out as they will have DNSSEC added as standard. Nominet currently have a very complex system:

Whenever you modify the zone on your unsigned master, this change will be propagated to the DNSSEC Signing Service, and the zonefile will be re-signed and sent to your signed slave. Also, the zone needs to be re-signed periodically to keep the signatures valid. The DNSSEC Signing Service will do this automatically, and send the updated zonefile to your signed slave.

Of course you may want to duplicate the unsigned master / signed slave for reliability through redundancy; the DNSSEC Signing Service will try all your unsigned masters, and pick the one offering the latest SOA. This signed zonefile will propagate to all your signed slaves. Conversely, it is not necessary to separate the signed slave and your public nameserver - this could be a single server.

System transactions
1.Registrar sends a request to sign a zone by EPP or Web Domain Manager
2.Nominet's EPP server passes the request to the DNSSEC Signing Service
3.The Signing Service polls the registrars unsigned master for a zone transfer
4.The Signing service receives the zone
5.The signing service generates a DNSSEC Key and,i.The signed zone is transferred the the signed slave nameserver
ii.The DS record is published in the parent .uk zone, in response to an EPP <secure> command.
6.The registrar publishes the signed zone from the slave to their public nameserver

Eurid the registry for .eu have a simple approach for quite a long time and they dont charge, which is something Nominet should consider which will
make it more available via registrars who will then use DNSSEC as a marketing tool for .co.uk & .org.uk:

Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC) is a protocol that adds security to the Domain Name System (DNS) by verifying name server responses in what is called a “chain of trust”, thereby making the DNS more secure.

.eu implemented DNSSEC on 9 June 2010 and is one of the first TLDs to have a complete DNSSEC chain of trust. This is important because validation occurs all the way up to the Internet root zone and means that anyone visiting a DNSSEC-enabled .eu domain name can be confident of its legitimacy.

Since DNSSEC can only reach its full potential once it has been adopted for all domain names, we want to make it as easy as possible for our registrars to implement the protocol. That’s why we introduced a DNSSEC Signing Service (DSS) that allows our registrars to enjoy all of the advantages of DNSSEC with none of the hassle.

Secondly:

Nominet could introduce mail out address verifications on each account without any new extension offerings.

After several conversations with Nominet, I believe it was there plan to mail the address for each .uk domain not for each registrant! so somebody with 10,000 domain applications would have a lot of post and admin plus lots of wasted costs and time at Nominet?

 

[websaway]

I don't think it has been damaged by anymore than 1% compared to what it will be if they attempt to push this through. The downside of this is few know about the .uk issue to complete the consultation, it is also the saving grace. If people find out at the moment they can fill in the consultation, so not too bad. If people find out after January the 7th, then it will do huge damage.

I feel like I am at weight watchers.... I shed 120 domains in the .uk plan. I'm down to 444 now, and dropping to about 30 prime names. They think they can do without the income from the so-called secondary market then they should give it a try. They think the secondary market's portfolio's are full of valuable names. I think they need a reality check. Most of names in any portfolio I have seen are garbage and it goes for most of us. We were all paying Nom for nothing more than the fear of someone registering what we dropped as we came to our senses. When I look at names I hold, that has been my fear since moving from domainer to web developer and online business owner. Out of those 120 only 2 have since been registered and both by other people whose details I recognise.

The .uk has given me the kick up the backside to say sod it and drop it.

I have always promoted quality rather than quantity.
Now that there is a sea change in the domain market my method to decide what to hold and what to fold is this

Why did you register the name and what were the circumstances dictating your thoughts at the time of registration.?

Now what has changed since you have registered the name and how does that affect each name.?

What immediately comes to light is those names that were registered without thought of quality and were simply being registered for quantity.

What then happens is the domains that were registered because of their inherent quality become more apparent. So a focus developes on the important aspects of the names.

So it's not the end of the world just a seismic occurrence.

 

[stender]

I Don't think the new domain is masively to blame. I think the market is on the decline largely due to the recent changes to Google. I reckon you have as much chance of ranking quertyuiop.co.uk than former premium names. Brandables are all I will really buy or keywords for eye appeal rather than any ranking benefits.
It's all down to quality of your site and updating it multiple times daily, more so than previosuly. Companies are seeing more and more traffic to their twitter feeds than their websites and that is going to increase too.
I'm letting the majority of my domains drop and the only names I will keep are those that I may use for a physical business. Not interested in affiliate marketing or domain dealing any longer. Dac and membership will not be renewed.

I'm out.