Buying a co.uk - do you mention the .uk?

[Rob_F]

I see Sedo have .uk tld listed and a quick look shows examples of different prices and double listings with same price. So people deciding to split and sell separately.

horizon.co.uk make offer
horizon.uk £10k

vacs.co.uk £2k
vacs.uk £2k

.

I don't see a problem with that. Once the .uk is registered, the registrant starts incurring costs.

I am selling all registered before 10/06/2014 .co.uk domains with rights to .uk, and all registered after 10/06/2014 .co.uk and .uk as *separate domains, even if I own both.

- Rob

* When sold via Sedo

 

[diablo]

Not possible in the scenario mentioned here. All you have is a Sedo "buy now" button.

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OP didn't mention Sedo.

 

[scooter]

I dont see a problem with that either.
What i was trying to say is Sedo have already answered the question.

You are only buying the co.uk. If the buyer throws in the.uk it's a bonus






.

 

[scooter]

OP didn't mention Sedo.

Archibel
http://www.acorndomains.co.uk/selli...ing-co-uk-do-you-mention-uk-2.html#post490698

OK I've done a little test by purchasing a 'buy it now' domain on SEDO and adding the message below to the transfer agent.



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[scooter]

If, at time of "buy now" the name is not registered, only the rights given to the owner of the co.uk, there has been no additional costs involved.

(imo) the rights should transfer to the new owner.



One for the courts but as others have stated, it would/will only be going there if it is a big ticket name.

It will be interesting to see if one does come before the courts in the future.



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[cm1975]

Just a thought, but was the principle reason for the 5 years rights, for a company to transition from the .co.uk to the .uk?

If a company is looking to purchase the .co.uk, they are choosing the domain that they wish their business to function on. ie. Any letterheads, promotional material, signage, etc is written in the .co.uk. Therefore, they do not need to 5 years transition period. This would be the case if someone bought a .co.uk or .uk domain that is free to register.

If you are looking for the .uk, then you should attempt to buy this from the registrant of the .co.uk domain.

Should the rights even be available once a domain is sold? (I know this is simplistic, as there will be genuine reasons for a registrant to change and the rights still being required)

Yes I know this is ignoring the desire for companies to have both the .co.uk and .uk.

 

[scooter]

If the registrant who's selling a .co.uk 3LD decides not to include the right to the matching 2LD .uk so, therefore, registers the .uk 2LD domain name themself, even after a contract to sell the .co.uk 3LD has been entered into, has the registrant selling the .co.uk 3LD actually done anything that could "inhibit their [the new registrant's] future use and enjoyment of the Purchase Object"?

I think one could argue the sole purpose of purchasing the co.uk was so they gained automatic rights to the .uk. So it's a means to an end

If you buy a business, the day the sale is agreed, all assets belonging to that business now become frozen and are the new owners property. I would argue rights of registration are the same.

If you bought a business that included a van and the owner decides to transfer that van in to his own name before everything is officially handed over, would that not be illegal?





.

 

[scooter]

How could you reasonably argue this as or on behalf of a potential purchaser unless, you informed the registrant who was advertising the 3LD for sale, perhaps, by stating you wanted both domain names or by asking if the .uk 2LD was available for purchase on its own?
.

We are talking specifically "buy now" scenario where at time of "buy now" the .uk clearly states....

Right of registration to .uk:
the-name-I'm-buying.co.uk

Why would I want to show my hand?
At time of sale, whois clearly states it belongs to the co.uk registrant. When "buy now" pressed, contract agreed to sell the co.uk and with that, comes right of registration for .uk as seller has not taken the right to register before "buy now"

Normally things would be listed.
It is listed on the whois. it belongs to the owner of co.uk. That owner is now me.

I think one could argue at time of sale, it is an asset.


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[scooter]

If the van was listed in the inventory of assets it could be a breach of contract.
Bingo! It clearly states.......

Right of registration to .uk:
the-name-I'm-buying.co.uk



.

 

[scooter]

I don't think the WHOIS output constitutes a list of assets that a party to a sales agreement.

I think it does.
Whether the domain has a website on it or not is irrelevant. What it does clearly state is...

Right of registration to .uk:
the-name-I'm-buying.co.uk



One for the courts to decide.



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[Retired_Member42]

I think it does.
Whether the domain has a website on it or not is irrelevant. What it does clearly state is...

Right of registration to .uk:
the-name-I'm-buying.co.uk



One for the courts to decide.



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Even if the .co.uk as a domain does have rights, the person you've agreed to buy it off is still the legal registrant and owner until it's transferred - regardless of Sedo contract. Agreeing and entering into contract to buy a domain doesn't make you the legal owner. In my opinion, whilst the seller is the legal owner, they're free to do as they see fit so long as the agreement doesn't specifically state the .uk comes with it.

 

[woopwoop]

If at the time of placing a bid on a domain, it has a website attached... Does that mean the domain seller has to give the website away?

You could argue the domain resolved to a site of the same name and theme as the domain, so the bidder for the domain, might reasonably expect to acquire the site's files, database and logos etc... I wouldn't argue this, just like I don't think the bidder of a domain should naturally receive the .uk right... Unless explicit agreement. Afterall they bid on a .co.uk domain and received it... Difficult to argue they'd been scammed when they were trying to acquire something without being clear about their intentions.

Recently someone made an offer for one of my .co.uks and I countered higher and made clear that they'd receive the .uk too

I think it's better to be clear about what the deal is for, but I did think the person making the offer knew about the .UK right but didn't mention it (they contacted me on the 10th!)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

 

[Retired_Member42]

If at the time of placing a bid on a domain, it has a website attached... Does that mean the domain seller has to give the website away?

You could argue the domain resolved to a site of the same name and theme as the domain, so the bidder for the domain, might reasonably expect to acquire the site's files, database and logos etc... I wouldn't argue this, just like I don't think the bidder of a domain should naturally receive the .uk right... Unless explicit agreement. Afterall they bid on a .co.uk domain and received it... Difficult to argue they'd been scammed when they were trying to acquire something without being clear about their intentions.

Recently someone made an offer for one of my .co.uks and I coy tweed higher and made clear that they'd receive the .uk too

I think it's better to be clear about what the deal is for, but I did think the person making the offer knew about the .UK right but didn't mention it (they contacted me on the 10th!)

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

Exactly. If you agree to buy a .co.uk via somewhere like Sedo, it's exactly that, you agree to buy the .co.uk domain. It'd be ridiculous to not discuss the .uk terms with the seller if you wanted that one also.

Either way, Sedo need something in place contractually to make clear if the .uk is included or not as I'm sure someone somewhere will try to pull a fast one and keep their .uk.

 

[diablo]

We are talking specifically "buy now" scenario where at time of "buy now" the .uk clearly states....

Right of registration to .uk:
the-name-I'm-buying.co.uk

Why would I want to show my hand?
At time of sale, whois clearly states it belongs to the co.uk registrant. When "buy now" pressed, contract agreed to sell the co.uk and with that, comes right of registration for .uk as seller has not taken the right to register before "buy now"

Normally things would be listed.
It is listed on the whois. it belongs to the owner of co.uk. That owner is now me.

I think one could argue at time of sale, it is an asset.


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It truly amazes me that there are people on this thread advocating "not showing their hand".

As we all know, pressing that buy now button constitutes nothing in practice. How many of us have had sales on Sedo fall through? And how many have pursued those clickers legally? Why? Because of the cost and time involved of doing so.

And yet here we have seasoned domainers arguing to keep quiet about the .uk to get a better price and saying take it to court if you don't get the .uk.

 

[diablo]

For the avoidance of doubt, maybe Nominet would like to confirm this very important point?

Did you ask Nominet?

 

[Stephen]

Trust

Did you ask Nominet?

Have posted the question on the question on the Nominet members forum.

As a buyer and seller of UK domains, I would like Nominet
to get involved in the situation they have created.

Also my aim is to help produce a better, more trusted aftermarket,
for UK domain sales.

 

[diablo]

Have posted the question on the question on the Nominet members forum.

As a buyer and seller of UK domains, I would like Nominet
to get involved in the situation they have created.

Also my aim is to help produce a better, more trusted aftermarket,
for UK domain sales.

Let us know when you hear back because this is the information we all need moving forward.

And I appreciate you want a trusted aftermarket , but "keeping quiet" as a buyer, as some are advocating, does not contribute to that.

 

[Stephen]

Lots of different situations

Let us know when you hear back because this is the information we all need moving forward.

And I appreciate you want a trusted aftermarket , but "keeping quiet" as a buyer, as some are advocating, does not contribute to that.

There are situations when it will be easy, possible and advisable to ensure that the .uk is included specifically in the terms to avoid doubt and future potential problems.

If I buy a domain via this forum, I for one, will include terms on .uk rights specifically as a buyer and seller.

But in the real world, like purchases via Sedo and other auction sites (excluding Domainlore - which have taken a lead on the matter) it
is not possible to specifically deal with the .uk matter, when acquiring a .co.uk with .uk rights.

There are also times that you feel the seller does not understand about .uk and if you raise it, they may take a simple view and simply double the price (as some on this forum believe you should do), would you take the risk?

I have raised a point of law as regards when the rights to the .uk within the .co.uk sale crystalize, I hope that Nominet who created the situation,
will stand up and deal with this legitimate question.

 

[diablo]

There are also times that you feel the seller does not understand about .uk and if you raise it, they may take a simple view and simply double the price (as some on this forum believe you should do), would you take the risk?

How does exploiting someone's ignorance square with your aim "to help produce a better, more trusted aftermarket, for UK domain sales?"

The risk to me would be in not getting the .uk so yes I would raise it every time. If the price then increased and exceeded what I wanted to pay, I would walk away.

 

[PanzerWagon]

Good to know there are a lot of legal experts on Acorn if I never need one

Not sure how keeping quiet about it and hoping you get it as part of the deal because the seller is clueless s a recommended approach. Penny wise, pound foolish.

I think you have to bring it up immediately as part of the deal. I wouldn't worry about how mentionining it effects price in the slightest. You're going to know from the asking price of the .co.uk whether the seller is realistic in their valuations or not.