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.org.uk and .uk

Discussion in '.UK Domain Name Consultations' started by retired_member33, Nov 23, 2013.

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  1. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    I agree with your post MDB, but perhaps there is one factor you are overlooking.

    I too have many small business customers who cannot afford to pay the prices demanded. This has always been a major problem for British businesses and consequently many of my own small business clients have had to settle for 'second best' or less appealing domains.

    However, these guys on here are not acting in the interest of British business, UK domain requirements or anything else, they are acting in their own interests. This recent news simply means that some of these portfolio holders will be handed thousands of .uk domains on a plate. THAT is why nothing will change in the UK market. The same people that have been holding businesses to ransom on .co.uk domains will now be able to do that with the new .uk domains.

    I do understand why they are doing it and why they want to protect their investments, but it has absolutely nothing to do with doing business online or assisting UK business owners in a positive way. They're protecting themselves and their portfolios of names, if you bear that in mind then most of the double standards, attempted market manipulation, self congratulation and hand-rubbing on these threads will make sense.

    Unfortunately we have to go with it, there isn't much my business clients, or the thousands of other businesses that are pissed off with things, can do. Thats why I have bought over 100 domains here on AD, mostly for business clients, basically because they cant be registered normally and essentially I have no choice.

    I'm not a domainer, these guys aren't in conflict with me personally, but I am at the forefront of frustration expressed to me by clients.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  2. Domain Forum

    Acorn Domains Elite Member

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    articles.co.uk
     
  3. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I think the pricing strategy of many domainers ( ie inflexible 4 figure prices) for very ordinary domains effectively killed off the chances of any secondary market in uk domain names. People hate to feel they are being held to ransom and then look elsewhere.

    I imagine that nominet get a lot of grief from frustrated small businesses.

    Stephen


     
  4. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    Because the quality of a name varies between poker dot co dot uk to blockeddrainservices dot co dot uk, it would be helpful if when posting about being held to ransom you could show examples of the quality of the domains you are referring to. Four figures ranges from 1000 to 9999, again this is a huge difference in pricing.
    I think an example always helps this type of argument.
     
  5. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree and I had been thinking of responding with similar but hadn't yet. Evidence us half a dozen of these overpriced domain names please. :)


    (from iPhone)
     
  6. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    Could do it very easily but since most of those I know about regularly post on here I imagine I would upset them by quoting specific domains.

    Stephen.
     
  7. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to use the exact domain exchange poker for gambling.
    But more precise facts do really help appreciate the point.
     
  8. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    I new a naïve builder who really did conclude that he could do well in the building trade if he owned a lot of land, the fact that he did not actually own any land he complained,was holding him back.
     
  9. righthand

    righthand Member

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    The problem with the domain market is actually that it is not more like the property market. There is no point in property seller asking a price well above current market value, because buyer will find an alternative.

    But the domain buyer often desires one name far above all others. Seller has monopoly powers. Therefore, income is maximised by refusing to sell at near current market prices, and selling only to buyers who, due to some special need, are willing to pay a multiple of market price.

    We can tell that many domainers are overpricing due to the miniscule proportion of stock that many turn over each year.

    I do have some sympathy for the view that domain values are underappreciated, and therefore accepting market price may be to sell cheaply. Though am not convinced that domainers, controlling a scarce resource created primarily for development rather than speculation, should have the right to make that call. Certainly not to the extent that some do, whereby prices may be dozens of times higher than would be seen at auction.
     
  10. Brassneck United Kingdom

    Brassneck Well-Known Member

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    I agree on the second sentence but don't see the point of making up an example. However if you insist this is made up - teaspoons.co.uk (£1,250).

    Honestly, not too hard to find what look to be vastly overinflated prices if you look through the selling sites of some portfolio holders.

    Stephen.
     
  11. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    That's not right is it, in fact it's the opposite to what you say about property.
    It is a fact that if buyers cannot get the same property they want elsewhere which suites their requirements, then that pushes the price of the property up.
    Yes if you want to live in an ordinary street in a large city most properties are the same and your analogy works, and the same will be with domains, if it's not a desired quality domain then there are lots of options and the ability to get the same meaning in another form will create competition and reduce the price. If however you want a one word domain that there is no alternative to, you will have to pay the price because of competition to own it.
     
  12. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    Options

    I have seen these UK generics priced at these high levels for years, the client does have a choose of lots of FTR .co.uk with a extra single suffix or prefix word in this case.

    These high prices that are being asked for make the client very happy when they see most the domains being sold with 2 words are only £100 - £300.

    A note nobody seems to be offering any criticism to the .com holders, were there landing page for teaspoons.com states " Please note that any offer to purchase this domain name must exceed $2,000 USD"

    Also the teaspoons.ltd.uk is available to register if they are really keen.

    I don't see blackmail with this domain or trademark infringement and to the 3 manufactures of teaspoons in the UK and/or some graphic design agency that wants a "funky name" £1,250 is a reasonable/good price.

    To the rest of us, it is over priced for what we would be able to use it for and would look for an alternative domain and think no more about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  13. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    That's really helpful because to me, that name, even at that price prior to negotiation, is not extortionate and the buyer is certainly not being held to ransom.
     
  14. invincible

    invincible Well-Known Member

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    If it was a little tea shop somewhere interested then I imagine they'd consider the price to be extortionate. Perceptions of value will always differ between interested parties and casual observers.


    (from iPhone)
     
  15. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    tea-spoons.co.uk

    Agree for that purpose it would be expensive but potentially still commercially viable as it has been pointed out that is the starting price,
    but I would suggest the tea shop register the FTR tea-spoons.co.uk
     
  16. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetically speaking this name would hold no value to a tea shop other than the inherent asset value of the name. Therefore you could understand them not wanting to pay the asking price simply to invest in the name, they would become a domainer.
    On the other hand it's a snip for a teaspoon manufacturer who could see a return on investment through marketing as well as still retaining the underlying resale value in the name.
     
  17. websaway United Kingdom

    websaway Well-Known Member

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    So long as they are given fair warning that if they build a successful business as a cheap short cut on the hyphenated version, it's no good crying in a few years about someone who owns the unhyphenated version holding them to ransom.
     
  18. Stephen United Kingdom

    Stephen Well-Known Member

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    just gone!

    ....wait tea-spoons.co.uk has just been registered, sorry tea shop!

    That's the problem with domains if you don't get in first somebody else will.
     
  19. anthony United Kingdom

    anthony Well-Known Member

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    I do love the way you have whittled the affected domains down to 1.4%, perhaps I should make it clear that the 1.4% will still be 1.4% whether it is all .org.uk domains affected (as is now) or whether aged rights were introduced, therefore the same quantity of .co.uk domains then become affected.

    Within that 1.4% is a huge number of .co.uk domains that have been caught by domainers over the last 10 years or so, let's not lose sight of that fact!
     
  20. righthand

    righthand Member

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    Indeed but not to anywhere near the same extent. Someone may love a property and pay an 20% extra for it, but ask a multiple of auction/market value and they will quickly go elsewhere

    But sellers often set a blanket minimum price, knowing that every once in a while they'll hit the jackpot when someone who has already named his business comes along and wants the exact match. Or might have limited naming choices for some other reason, and be willing to pay handsomely even if the name is obscure and of little value to anyone else.

    This sort of opportunity is rarely available to the property owner (when it is, it's called a ransom strip).

    Another key difference is that property speculators tend to rent out, so at least they're using productively in the meantime.
     
  21. AssetDomains

    AssetDomains Well-Known Member

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    And let's not forget a lot of these domains have since been bought on the after market by end users something nominet themselves suggested they do on a great place to be.
    Org.uk owners have been clear they were buying a secondary extension all along.
    It would have been ludicrous for nominet to then tell the people who bought the prime extention on the aftermarket they were going ahead with a release mechanism which handed the prime extension to probably another domainer using the org.uk extension outside its intended purpose
     
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